Limiting Beliefs

Some thoughts about limiting beliefs I had as a follow up to the "actor" thread:

I mentioned this in another thread (I don't remember which one...) where Neville's ideas of "acting as if" and visualizing before going to sleep were discussed.

I am not trying to take issue with these concepts, or Neville because I definitely appreciate his contributions.  Obviously his ideas worked for him and they worked for others.  I've had some success myself, so I know they can work.  But it honestly has to be acknowledged that they don't always work for every person who practices them.  Why not?  Some people might say that it wasn't practiced correctly or consistently or long enough.  But that sounds like a cop out.

I think some people may have even had some success with the practices for certain things and then when they try to apply it in other areas.  And I completely understand the idea is that these practices can help overcome the limiting beliefs and reprogram your subconscious mind.

An example I always think of is the schlub who lives in his parents basement and a-hem "visualizes" that he's with his favorite Victoria's Secret model every night.  This guy doesn't even wind up dating a girl who works at the Victoria's Secret at the mall, let alone a supermodel.  Why?  Because his limiting beliefs simply don't allow it.  

Think about all of the limiting beliefs he'd have to change in order for him to be able to create that reality.  He has beliefs about himself, his worth etc., about relationships in general, about those women and the kinds of men they actually do date.  In addition, if he's some unfortunate looking guy who works bagging groceries he also has to somehow believe that he is going to wind up in a situation where he'd even be in proximity to the model to even have a chance to ask her out.  And all of that's just not compatible at all with what he believes is possible for himself.  That's why it never manifests it, no matter how much "feeling" his visualizations have.  (ick...)

Now that we’ve looked at the kind of dude who doesn’t have luck with VS models, let’s look at the guys who do.  Leonardo DiCaprio shags a different model every week.  Adam Levine had at least two of them…Tom Brady…those guys started out with extraordinary belief systems to begin with in order to reach a level of success that put dating a VS model into their reality. Most of us don't have the belief systems of successful pro athletes or famous movie stars or singers.

Now, since I don’t know any of those guys or all that much about them personally I just have to guess at this but if we use Brady as an example.  He must have demonstrated some athletic ability from a young age that was nurtured.  As it was nurtured the belief that he could be exceptional expanded, and kept expanding until he reached such an elite level of success that it’s not a stretch at all for him to believe he basically can get any chick he wants.

So it’s one of those things that kind of starts with a seed and then expands increasingly over time.  Those guys probably didn’t set out to have the careers they did with the idea of being able to date models.  (Ha, maybe Adam Levine did…) it was focusing on one set of beliefs “I’m a great football player” or “I can be a successful actor” that lead to the natural belief that they could get hot chicks too.  Does that make sense?  If you can manifest a career as a rich elite athlete you can manifest anything.

I dunno if what I am saying is as clear as I’d like it to be, but the basic idea is that limiting beliefs that exist on the subconscious level are what keep or visualizations from materializing and we can overcome those limiting beliefs by constantly, systematically and incrementally expanding our beliefs about who we are and what is possible for us.  

If the poor shlub in the previous example changed any part of his equation, say he came up with a business idea and suddenly became a millionaire, all the sudden it wouldn't be a stretch to believe he could date a model.  So you can change your beliefs about one thing by tackling another area where the limiting beliefs aren't quite as deeply set.

I know that people want to replicate Neville's successes by doing what he did, but honestly it seems that Neville was one of those extraordinary people to begin with making his manifestations so much easier.  For the rest of us who may have had the limiting beliefs piled on when we were young it may take more work or extra effort to reach the place where we can manifest easily by just visualizing before we go to sleep.

kazoo wrote:
An example I always think of is the schlub who lives in his parents basement and a-hem "visualizes" that he's with his favorite Victoria's Secret model every night.  This guy doesn't even wind up dating a girl who works at the Victoria's Secret at the mall, let alone a supermodel.  Why?  Because his limiting beliefs simply don't allow it.  

Ok kazoo, no need to call me a schlub, I mean...dammit... I'm trying to improve myself. And I prefer to call living in my parent's house while visualizing my Victoria's Secret sugar momma every night "Working from home" because one day it will pay off....and in more ways than one if you know what I mean.

Lol PR.

If this guy can get VS models, anyone can!

I currently have no smart comebacks for this so I'll get back to you later.

But lol I was just thinking about (and maybe looking at pictures of) Victoria's Secret models yesterday...  synch-ron-icity? that, or rotten good luck




(and ps, I work out every day. EVERY DAY. Besides, I live in the attic... )

I have thoughts on this but my head is a jumbled mess right now so it's hard to write it...

For now, maybe this video can be food for thought:



What is it about him that attracted Nina Agdal to him? And why Nina and not Kate as he originally intended?

Haha, figures you guys can't form a response when VS models are mentioned.

Models weren't the point of the thread!!!!

i think you might have prodded some insecure ego's here Kazoo lol

kazoo wrote:Haha, figures you guys can't form a response when VS models are mentioned.  

Models weren't the point of the thread!!!!  

but but but....

What did you expect kazoo? It's like showing a dog a toilet and not expecting him to lick it all.

My mind is all over the place between those threads lol, but what I wanted to ask I guess was - so do you believe then, that if anything comes down to core belief then visualizing and acting as if does nothing at all, other than maybe just help root a certain belief better?

That it is better to just work on changing your beliefs rather than waste time on visualizing? Perhaps visualizing only works because you believe it does. You believe nothing is easy and simple and you need to at least follow some certain process for a period of time and somehow it bypasses a doorman in your brain that then allows a certain experience or entity to manifest in your experience. In other words the process might be visualizing or affirmations but it might as well be ANYTHING. Say, if someone tells you that if you jump on one leg 3 times around your house at midnight while saying "President Roosevelt is the best" then you will get your desire, then if you do that every night you will actually  get your desire because you have believed that the following a certain process has now granted you a permission because if it has worked for someone else you know, it must work for you. Maybe that's the way prayer works. We don't believe in our own power so we need to grant permission to a seemingly outward source to sort things out for us.

I remember Bashar says that the most important belief that you need to change is the belief that the beliefs CAN be changed. Most people are brought up to believe that beliefs are these set in stone hard things that have been confirmed and self confirming all your life and that it would take another lifetime to change them. So most don't even try- cause it seems like such hard work. That's why Bashar said if you have the belief that beliefs can be changed and it is easy, then you are already half way there.

So how fast do you believe a belief can be changed? Does it require a certain action or prolonged set of actions to change it,  can it be instantaneous if you have a belief that some subliminal technique, such as NAPs or hypnosis has changed them for you or can they be changed instantaneously just because you say you now believe B now instead of A and have an absolute knowing that it is so?

Question to everyone- have you ever changed a belief successfully and if so- what changed in your circumstances AFTER you changed it and how long did it take for you to change it?
Following the above example of self confidence and being able to date certain people I had very low self esteem as a teenager. Funny enough when I was 16 I was 5'11" and already a working model BUT I never got any guys, cause I never believed I was desirable. Of course there were boys I liked and used to daydream and fantasize about being with them 24/7 pretty much, but nothing ever happened, not even a kiss or a look, no guy even ever said hi to me. Then one day couple of weeks before my 17th birthday my 2 best friends invited me to go out and we went to a few clubs. We met several different groups of guys and nothing happened, no kisses or even giving phone numbers, yet SOMETHING in my brain clicked and I suddenly became super confident. From that day forward I had an absolute knowing that I could get any guy I wanted. It never occurred to me after that if I like a guy, he might not like me,  it was somehow so natural and given that I am so likable they most certainly will. I had herds of guys calling me home all the time wanting to spend time with me and they were always the most handsome, fit, rich and desirable. My friends were always saying "How come you always catch the best fish?". Now note that I wasn't sleeping with them. The only people I slept with were the ones I was in long term relationship with. So it wasn't like they got something sexual and therefore were now suddenly interested. I mean I literally went from nobody ever look at  me to every guy in the room look at me, overnight, without changing anything at all other than what I believed was possible for me.
My mom used to call that day "the night the aliens swapped my daughter" meaning I was literally one person one day and an absolute opposite the day after.

I only brought up models because it was a scenario where someone would visualize regularly and not have their visualization materialize.

I think the thing to remember is that the visualizing and "acting as if" aren't what really lead to manifesting, they are advocated because they ways of getting the feeling of having what you want. If you can arrive at the feeling in other ways there is no need to visualize or act as if at all.

I'm not saying that visualizing and acting as if don't work. Because again, people have had success doing those things. I'm more making the case that it's not going to work for every person or for everything we want. Because we are all different we are going to get all different kinds of results depending on our own unique belief systems. I suppose you could say that in itself is a limiting belief, but I am really just basing it on observing results over at the other place for a few years.

It's hard to say how long it could take to change a belief. Sometimes it seems like it happens in a flash like you describe. Other times it takes a long time or never happens. Of course these are all limiting beliefs about limiting beliefs. We believe some are more deeply rooted than others so that's what we are left dealing with.

Ha, we were talking about "interconnectedness" on the thread about the "others" and it seems that these threads/discussions are interconnected as well.  I'm copying something Lotus wrote in another thread to expand upon it here, in some sort of attempt to keep the discussions organized (not so sure that's working tho!)

Lotus ♥ wrote:This doesn't mean that every belief will necessarily manifest. . . I just noticed you started another discussion on belief so let me expand a little on this subject.


This doesn't mean that every belief will necessarily manifest. Many of what we call "beliefs" may never reach beyond the individual mind to access that deeper mind of all. The mentally disordered for example have their own beliefs, very firm and solid, yet they never manifest, rather remain as individual hallucinations and delusions. Jesus, on the other hand, could manifest Lazarus out of even death. How could he do it? Because Jesus, through his "oneness" with the Father, had direct access to that deeper, level of the mind, the very template of creation, on which Lazarus, indeed, was neither dead nor alive. Jesus' first word was, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep," (exactly the same he said about Jairus' daughter: "The girl is not dead but asleep.")

On the individual level of the mind, this doesn't really mean a lot, does it? Believe "Lazarus is asleep" for as long, as much and as deep as you please, Lazarus will never arise from the dead. However, on the deeper level of the one mind of all, "Lazarus is asleep" becomes the main signal of "reality" itself. A new "transmission" or "projection" of the whole "show." It literally re-shapes the world—or to be accurate, everyone's "perception" of the world, because after all there is no such thing as "the world" really out there. It's just a "projection" all along, only in our minds like a dream, and particularly from this template-level of the one mind of all.

In other words, "Lazarus is asleep" was not what Jesus "personally" believed, in his own "individual mind." Rather, it was a "re-definition" of Lazarus on the template level of the mind, thus a re-definition to be "perceived" by EVERY individual mind, because this template level is the "mother" mind that feeds all individual minds and constantly provides them with what we call "reality."

So then, I think we all  have figured out that the formula of "ask, believe, receive" is just simplistic way of describing a deeper process. Because there are plenty of people who follow this formula and still wind up empty handed.

So if I am understanding this correctly, (and I may not be...) there is of course not only the individual belief system in play but also a collective belief system at work?

The mentally ill person doesn't manifest what they believe because the rest of the collective identifies that person as mentally ill, that person's individual beliefs are not real to the collective so the collective belief system overrides the individual?

In the example of the actor, we all see the person as an actor as well.  So it's not only the actor's belief that he is simply "getting into a role" but our collective belief as well, that he's just an actor, not his character and what he's presenting on film is not reality that keeps him from attracting what he acts out?

i dont know Kazoo.... i still find it hard to watch Ray Liotta after he was in the film unlawful entry hehe

He did a good job with Cooper and Gosling in The Place Behind The Pines:

I feel like a puppy trying to catch all the bits of tiny food that are being thrown around one right after another... as soon as I read one point that I want to address, you guys wrote more and more and now I hope I get the main responses down...!

First thought is, I actually sorta disagree with you on this, kazoo. Neville's methods are flawless and though he was a master indeed, that was largely because he practiced it consistently and saw it as an exact science (which I recommend). Anyone can reach his mastery of conscious mind control. For me, it really is not a matter of if his "falling asleep as if it were true" works, but it is a matter of us not knowing what the heck the universe is doing to orchestrate what we are aligning with... and that's okay. With consistency, not only do we align with it, but that alignment happens because our subconscious mind follows suit with whatever it is given. Sometimes it takes once or a couple times. Sometimes it takes months. Sometimes, something else comes along that was even better, but we're so focused on mastery meaning "getting exactly a specific thing", that we kind of forget that wait a second, Neville stuff IS effective (or: this stuff does always work!).

Second thing is that visualization is impossible to avoid. We are always visualizing, every moment. So any method that we use to align with the desired outcome is in fact involving visualization, whether we call it that or not. Really. Like, really really. Like, totally yes it involves visualization. Creative visualization (which I think is what we are all generally referring to here when we discuss visualization) involves any and all senses, So it doesn't always occur with holding a picture. Sure, some consciously prefer to utilize other senses in their imagination, and we really can't avoid involving a few at one time. Our senses are tied in the fact that our physical experiences involve multiple senses, so our creative visualization will follow the same way, whether or not we are consciously intending to do it that way.

So if you ask me (although I'm fully aware that nobody asked me lolll), of course visualization directly changes your subconscious beliefs. Unless of course you're feeling separate from your visualization... which in that case, you're possibly pushing it further away. The only way you can feel separate from your desired outcome during visualization is if you are involving doubt in the moment... and since doubt is likely a dirty habit, once you notice it's there, it can be removed by simple thinking, "alright so what would this scenario look like if I didn't doubt it?" That's why a more playful approach is much better- and should really be the only approach- because when we remove doubt, then everything is fun and free of resistance. Remember, doubt doesn't just mean we're doubting something's possible... it's tied to doubting that we could simply have a fulfilling experience like it. It's doubting that we deserve it, or even that it is okay to have it for some reason... and playing games with looking at our current self-concept is a simple and easy solution for this. Really. It's a solution. And it's okay to buy into that idea. It's true. Do not be afraid, guys. Do not fear because you are capable of doing all these things simply. Sometimes it takes consistency. So what? In my experience, the most consistency a paradigm shift requires is a handful of reminders of the new chosen reality. Whether that spans over one day or three years- that's up to each of us and our own choice.

How to change a belief? How long it takes to change a belief? If you are having a hard time changing a belief, it is *ONLY* because you are seeing it as a hard thing to change. My dear dear dears... if I know anything now, it is that. Anything is as easy as we let it be. If we are fighting with ourselves and we are frustrated because we "can't" seem to see it as easy... there are simple solutions for this. Notice your physical indicators while you are feeling that way. Are your fists clenched? Is your neck tight? Is your breathing uneasy? Switch each of those three things in that moment (or whatever indicators you have noticed), and since we are psycho-physical units (mind affects body and body affects mind), our mind will start to associate ease with that subject- with that belief. If you notice that very second that your fists are tight, consciously loosen them up and shake them in place. Imagine your neck muscles becoming more lax. Consciously take a few steady breaths. Every single one of these things changes your tied belief to what you are holding on to in your mind at that moment.

As for the shlub in the basement, he can absolutely attract that model. Like lunar pointed out... models are often not approached by men, whatever the reason... and men living in basements sometimes feel they have nothing to lose by asking one out. He doesn't have to have that great job yet to believe he can attract a woman he has the super hots for. This is why the notably successful entrepreneurs are the ones who started with the big idea that got criticism... bc when he got the inspiration for it, he happened to be living in his parents' basement... or attic And they persisted anyway, choosing to focus on their vision and how cool it is, over the sensible approach of onlookers who laughed at him. And some of those were much more "successful" than him in that moment- having their own place and a "good job", which gave them some reasoning as to why their disbelief had more credibility than his belief. PSHAW.

Thanks for that Armine. I'm still gonna focus on the people who practice these "methods" either knowingly or unintentionally and still don't have their visualizations come to fruition, nor do they get the "something better" that gets talked about either. As I've pointed out, we have a whole forum full of people at the other place who try this stuff and honestly the success stories are are only a small percentage of what gets posted. Most people don't get what they visualize. If you could give your thoughts to further explain why that is, where they are going wrong, that would be awesome.

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm honestly trying to see where people are going wrong so that they can be better directed to getting what they want. In the example of the schlub (poor guy) yeah, he CAN attract a model, but he doesn't. Even tho he visualizes being with her regularly. He might even have pictures of her posted on his walls like a vision board. It's not just because he doesn't approach a model. His reality doesn't even contain the opportunity to interact with a model. If visualizing consistently brings about our reality, such opportunities at the very least should be part of his reality, right?

Hmm why do they not get what they want...
There is one primary cause that I present to you, kazoo. I can get objections about it, but when it comes down to it, the majority of these who 'failed' to manifest are doing this one thing:
They are spending 'down time' (any moment they're not doing a deliberate exercise) holding themselves I'm a vibration that contradicts the vibration of their desire. In other words, some method is practiced to some degree, and then aside from that, they are identifying with being the old man, not the new man. Once you've decided that you now have this thing or experience, you must remind yourself that you are not the old man but the new one. You are not the you that you were before the decision, so you must acknowledge this not only during scheduled periods set aside for methods, but actively and regularly.

Now, some will say that it is impossible to do this because then ignoring current reality gets involved. Well, it's not ignoring if you acknowledge that this is all a for fun (and shouldn't it all be for fun ultimately?) and the reason current reality stares us in the face is because of what we thought and spoke of in the past. You don't have to ignore current reality. Focus on your preferred reality with such abandon that it's just more fun to feel like that's what it is for you... like that is your real reality.

It's not going to feel like a huge change. It's a gentle perspective switch. We don't have to control our thoughts every moment. That's just not necessary, and we all know there are rich people who have negative moments and there are people in beautiful relationships with shirt fights sometimes, and there are people who are well and whole and they have crappy moments too, when they feel yucky. We don't have yo believe in anything 100% in order to experience it. We just have to stop killing it with thought habits from before that are just on auto and still resisting the things we are visuslizing. This takes playing around with. Metacognition is a wonderful thibg, and it means we as humans can be aware of what we are aware of. We. An monitor our thoughts. So, changing the pattern only during a method being practiced, is excellent, yet if we haven't noticed a change yet, just a little more attention needs to go into the words we are choosing throughout the day. You don't have to worry about always being on top of your thoughts though... being on top of your words is ideal. Just a little first. Pay attention to all the words you use, both to others and to yourself.

If your self concept is now that of the new man, then your words will reflect that. Your vibration will reflect that. If you notice something that the old man would do, say, or think, then switch it. When you're walking, driving or chewing your food, etc. That's it. One by one, the words we use change our self concept - our state of being - and tada.... you are now more aligned with your desire. At that point it starts to feel somewhat real and natural, and you don't have to pay as much attention. Keeping it consistent happens with momentum by then, and the moment it becomes physically manifest depends on the universe's orchestration and it's like when they say the baby's due any day now, or any minute now. We don't know why it's born on a certain day and time. As far as we knew, it was ready days ago... but we know it's coming so we wait and not think it might turn back into a sperm and egg. Of course it is about to be born. So we happily wait for the call and meanwhile go about our business.

I wrote this on my phone, hope there aren't many typos!
Also, anytime I said 'you', it is a you in general. I have no idea what you, kazoo, are trying to manifest or how you go about this stuff in any particular moment. Obviously, you have a lot of knowledge about the laws.

K, gotta go. I'm happy to answer any specific questions if anyone likes!

Thanks for that Armine.

I've definitely advised folks that they can't expect to undo an entire days worth of negativity with short periods of visualization. Our overall vibration is what counts, not the short periods of ups or downs. But according to the theories, visualizing should be enough to positively impact the rest of the day, right? But from what you are saying it's not just visualizing for some period before sleep but really being consistently disciplined enough to be aware of your thoughts and feelings all day? I agree with that for sure, but it's a little more than what is being sold in the "methods" or "techniques" and can be really difficult for people dealing with major issues of depression or low self worth.

I'm not trying to manifest anything in particular right now. My questioning really is coming from observing the other forum for a few years and seeing the same things over and over and a lot of people who try their best but still don't get what they want.

I recently got a new job but I didn't do any visualizing to get it. I really just don't go about things that way. For me, Bashar's "follow your joy" philosophy is what works. Like I've said elsewhere, of course my mind does wander and imagines stuff but I never intentionally decide to visualize anything specific.

kazoo, can you explain more about the "follow your joy" philosophy?

It seems to me like the best moments in my life manifested close to periods of great passion and general fun....

When my fun and passion dry up, it's like I'm a car about to crash.

I remember reading from a Joseph Campbell (a mythologist who likes to say "Follow your bliss") about how the sacral chakra is connected to the third-eye chakra. When I connected this to modern day, New Age influenced interpretations of the the chakras, it's interesting.

The sacral chakra is all about pleasure and self-worth, about feeling good, emotions, and it's also called the "manifestation chakra". Joseph Campbell wrote that the energies of this chakra can be directed upwards to fuel the third eye chakra, which is written to be "where we see God". I guess the third-eye is the intuition and visualization chakra.

Even more curious is how Napoleon Hill connected the idea of sexual desire with increased intuition in The Mystery of Sex Transmutation chapter in Think and Grow Rich. Basically, my idea behind all of this is that our feelings of pleasure, passion, self-worth, and deservability power up the manifestation process, our visualizations just give them direction. I dunno....

Sure PR:

kazoo wrote:Thanks for that Armine.  

But from what you are saying it's not just visualizing for some period before sleep but really being consistently disciplined enough to be aware of your thoughts and feelings all day? 

It can be just visualizing, because depending on the person/topic/moment, there may be very little resistance and that focus and clarity is what was needed to turn things toward what they've been wanting.

The only reason discipline would be necessary is if the person/place/moment involves built up, habitual resistance (aka crappy feelings like hopelessness and desperation), and the consistency allows the mind to switch from viewing it from the "comfortable" habit of seeing the desire as apart from them, to the new habit of being one with it. You really are rewiring the brain, so considering that, it is in fact surprisingly simple and practical. Most cases require less consistency than we might think, but we can't just monitor our perspective once or twice and then say it doesn't work or that we can't do it. Once in a while, more consistency might be required because we may have perceived it as a big thing.

But it is absolutely possible to start shifting a paradigm in one sitting. I'm one thought, in one moment. It's super important to acknowledge that, because years of one belief doesn't require years to turn it around. It really does put the wheels in motion every time you suggest a new perspective of the belief. Sometimes what we think is so deeply rooted is actually mostly ready for change, only we are too afraid of the change... and cognitive priming (any method whether it be visualization or just questioning your belief) will loosen up that congestion and create the new connections in your mind. All that means is... what we think is so far and requires so much struggle- is more often than not a few tweaks away on the projector... and the reflection on the screen will magnify it and make it seem like its a big hard journey. Then you gently tweak that projector (your mind) and the picture on the screen (your life experience) is big and beautiful and so much nicer and you think... was that all it took?

However much it takes to tune your mind to the matching frequency of what you want- it is never as much as it took to suffer thinking your preferred experience was impossible for you. It is always less actual work to do it, and this is why approaching it practically is more effective than using words like faith and believe (unless you happen to prefer it that way). Even the word discipline throws me off bc I have in the past associated discipline with unpleasantness, hard struggling work and tough control... so I myself prefer to not use it, but I may in the future, and do currently with others who have confidence in their own experience with any sort of self discipline. It can then be used to support their ease of creative focus.

Like you said, kazoo, manifesting is constant and we don't have to apply any specific method to everything. Often we passively think or decide and then voila... which is why approaching life as a game is good. Less analysis is required and it's always more fun... which equals ease. That's why the life of the party gets all the guys/girls. Bc they're just having fun.

PR, I like this one too:

As for depression, it is dissolved with consistent suggestion of appropriate thoughts. There is no one size fits all affirmation or method or timeframe. This is why working with a practitioner helps, or the person finds the cracks in time where there are glimpses of hope.

The folks at the other forum who are feeling down and "failing" at achieving their desires have not gotten a grip of their power. They have not yet understood the basic truth that we create our reality. If they did, they would not be asking the same questions over and over again, and begging for help. The answers largely lie within themselves and as soon as they understand they are 100% responsible for their feelings, then they will stop feeling down or melancholy or even deeply depressed and will not waste a second before turning it around... first by awareness of their own words, then thoughts, then finally actions... and the actions will be inspired and come with ease.

Society taught us to be compassionate as in to listen to others who are largely focused on their struggles, but that is not compassion. It enables them to linger on precisely what they dont want. Compassion is sharing the knowledge and when they are tired enough of their own discontentment, they will use it. We cannot force this truth on people. When someone thinks life is undeniably tough and that healing is a struggle, then that is their experience. All we can and should do is offer the truth. The rest is up to them.

I agree with Bashar's follow your joy and Campbell's follow your bliss. It is the underlying foundation to living our purpose and not blocking our desires.

The Simplifier wrote:The only reason discipline would be necessary is if the person/place/moment involves built up, habitual resistance (aka crappy feelings like hopelessness and desperation),

I think this may be the case with most of the "ex back" people on the other forum and is a major factor in the low success rates. A lot of people find the forum to begin with by googling "get my ex back" or something like that to begin with. And quite honestly most people who have a positive sense of self and are not desperate don't go out of their way to do that. So the sample being observed is a little skewed in that respect, for sure. I'm not judging, that's how I found the forum. lol. But folks starting from a not so great place still need to be able to find a way of overcoming that resistance.

I do know that sometimes a major shift can happen quickly. I don't think it's ever happened that way for me, but of course it has for others. One of the things I like about what Bashar says is that "following your joy" doesn't have to be all kinds of constant crazy fun stuff. I'm a simple girl, never liked being the "life of the party" and was never attracted to that type. It can be the simple pleasures of life as well. I think kind of changing the perspective of what constitutes "joy" can help with some of the pressure people feel when they discover LoA to be happy all of the time.

kazoo wrote:
A lot of people find the forum to begin with by googling "get my ex back" or something like that to begin with.  And quite honestly most people who have a positive sense of self and are not desperate don't go out of their way to do that.  So the sample being observed is a little skewed in that respect, for sure.

Yupp. But hey, that community needed a place and now they have it. Whoever's on that vibe about their circumstances will be drawn there and unfortunately most clear answers and advice will not be applied, but some will so it's ok. I agree, no judgment here, either.

I'm also behind that concept that your joy doesn't mean going after crazy thrills necessarily. When we're at peace and make following joy a habit, all the insane thrills are not usually necessary in order to have fun.

I've also not been the life of the party literally, but being the life of your own mind party is maybe what I meant loll. To really feel at east and choose to look at any project you're given with joy and ease.

Thanks for the chat, kazoo. All really good stuff to discuss.