"Attachment" and "Letting Go"

I don't find the well known teachers to be "confusing" so I don't know why this is assumed to be universally true.

Maybe I am just better at filtering out the parts of what they are saying that I don't find helpful than others. But this idea that the so called "gurus" don't help anyone and that all they do is line their own pockets just isn't my reality. I know I've been helped personally by many of them, and if they have managed to achieve their vision of success in the process then I'm happy for them.

Anyway, no one should be defining what an "elite level of success" is for someone else. To one person an "elite level of success" may be a Scrooge McDuck type money vault to go swimming in every day. lol. To someone else it's simply good health and a happy loving family.

To me, experiences bring me much more happiness than material objects. If I had unlimited funds I wouldn't bother with a huge house and mega-expensive cars. I don't need to prove anything to anyone with status symbols. Don't get me wrong, I'd have nice things, just not bother with feeling like I have to go overboard. For me, I'd rather just travel and see the world. So a huge house would sit unoccupied and the fancy cars would just sit in the garage collecting dust.

Lotus, I think what you have mentioned is the real area where people run into trouble. They can clearly see exactly what it is that they want and may even get started with a great deal of enthusiasm but for some reason end up falling back into their old habits and patterns. Overcoming this obstacle is what I was trying to get at with my "repeating patterns" thread. It just seems that changes are hard to make and even harder to sustain.

Lotus wrote:

posay wrote:Lol I thought it was Adam at first because of the name but when I read the content of the posts I could tell they weren't whiney enough to be Adam and Maverick sprung to mind.  Cool.

Adam's not whiny. Adam just got a "wrong" name—a very, very heavy name, "Adam," that has a lot of connotations and unconsciously invokes several feelings and expectations. Instead, think of him as Tony for example, would he feel as whiny? Think one of the most common names, Oliver, Jack or even James, and he wouldn't feel as whiny. So just coming across as "Adam," and in a forum people like Posay or MA frequent to have fun, that was in my opinion why he ended up whiny and even worse than whiny. May God forgive us all!

* * *

Will finally be back to you Adi in a few hours.

So you say he's not whiny, then said he ended up whiny all because his name is Adam. Lol I didn't realise names were so important. Maybe he should change his name like you did.

Lotus wrote:Finally back to Adi. First of all a very good idea is to send more than one post, Adi; preferably one post in reply to each of ours, instead of that "tower" in which you crammed us all for no obvious reason.

Pardon my Indian genes. We have this tendency to cram people into everything everywhere. We got a lot of folks over here haha.

Suggestion taken!

Lotus wrote:Yes, but this is every man's story, my friend. What are you yourself doing now in the States, for example? The very concept of "success," about which you're probably the most talkative, or the most enthusiastic, is in question here, Adi. What is success? How do you define success?

So yes, I agree with you, of course. But this is the whole human drama. Everyone thinks they know what they want; everyone aware or unaware is after a specific feeling; and everyone, to one degree or another, is brainwashed—by the media, the culture, the education system, etc. Even those who wake and "rebel" against this all are still "conditioned" by it. They only "react," give almost the same "response" just in the opposite direction. Like that atheist who denies God and hates religion in response to those who love them. Either way, God remains a central idea and interest in his life. Either way, he's a captive in the same prison.

However aware you may really be, therefore, you're playing the same game like it or not. First you start unsure what you really want. Next you think you know what you want and begin your journey pursuing it. Finally, 60 years later or so, you probably discover that wasn't really what you want.

What am I doing in Silicon Valley?
Answer may surprise you.
It's not because I want to establish a corporation there or initialy my own start up that will revolutionalize the world and make me a billionaire. I can do that from India as well.

My real reason to go to Silicon valley is because for some unbeknown reason I am attracted to that area. Growing up I read descriptions about Silicon Valley and I was determined to get there. Plus, If I want to be around people who share similar interests with me - that is passion for programming, inventing and improvising technology etc etc, what could be the other place where there will be concentration of people who have these interests?

How do I define success?
For me, success = freedom; success = choice.
It is also about establishing win-win relationships. I give you what you want (making your life easier) and in turn, I get what I want.
Making an impact on the world.

I do agree with the fact that everyone is brainwashed by something. I am a rebel and I too am brainwashed by others who are rebels.

The only difference is I know that I am being brainwashed and I know what I am letting myself get brainwashed.
Earlier I was brainwashed by society when I was naive and I was always unhappy and felt like I was leashed from doing what I wanted to do. Ever since I was a kid, I was never aspired to be "normal". I was, in fact, manipulated to think that being normal is what "god" wants you to be. But let's not get into the gory details of that.

I do understand what you are saying about the problems with "knowing what you want".
Most people pursue what they think they want only to be disappointed after 60 years.
That can never happen to me.

I know one thing for the fact that your intuition is never wrong for you.
Think about what you want, if that thought doesn't make you feel good OR gives you contradictory thoughts - This is not a right time to pursue that "want".
I have had multiple such experiences of pursuing something inspite of contradictory gut feeling, then achieving it and then feeling like "shit! this is not what I thought I would feel after getting it".
Talk of letting go? That is why I have no problems with detachment and letting go. The useless concepts these gurus talk about.

All that matters is not what is being talked about - "Gut feeling".
And once you do recognize what your gut tells you, then there is another battle you need to conquer - which is to respect your gut feeling and not let your childish ego get in a way.To be put in other words, "Trusting your gut feeling".

This could be the answer to the very popular question - "Why isn't LoA working for me?"

Lotus wrote:
I again agree with you, more or less. I just don't have such strong denial or "disgust" anymore. I've simply learned that people are not that simple to be hastily judged like that, especially given that most people don't really have "freewill," are rather "programmed" and are just driven to do what they do. Besides, let's never forget this word of gold:

I don't know whether I am gonna grow out of this "disgust" phase but my gut tells me that it's perfectly fine to hold disgust towards these people. And I see many of the real life "proofs" for "why" my gut tells me so.

If I was baught into (logically) the teachings of these LoA pornstars, I'd never have gotten to where am I right now. My burning desire was to "prove these fuckers wrong". And that is what kept me going on and on and experimenting on my own and coming up with things that actually matter.

Also, everyone is judging everyone all the time. I have no issues judging others and I don't have issues when others judge me.
Same goes for praise. It's all a white noise to me. Soothes my ears.

Besides, the happiest people I have seen aren't concerned with others judging them. It's the mediocre ones (the "most" people ) who seem too much concerned with the idea of "you should not judge people".

Lotus wrote:
We have to learn to do the opposite, my friend—pay more attention to our behavior, and also more to others' intentions. You've been a victim of this human tendency or practice yourself, Adi. Those who take for example only your words, especially your vulgar words (behavior), will probably miss your immaculate meaning and miss your most beautiful "intentions" behind this vulgarity. So you too please just try to understand everyone's intentions and meaning, at least give them the benefit of the doubt, not just haste to feel "disgusted" by their behavior.

As psychologically pleasing and appealing this may sound but I don't see how this will help me get closer to my goals.

And yeah, I do agree that I have been a victim of this behavior/intention dilemma. Yes, there are way too many "kazoo"s out there in the world

Okay, I'll give it a go based on the fact that "you" said it (considering you to be Zorba here).
Let's give them a benefit of doubt.

Lotus wrote:
I wrote too much already so let me here answer almost the rest of your post in brief, all on esoteric wisdom anyway.

First of all I deal quite "lightly" with the whole thing, Adi. I don't at all mind that you describe "esoteric wisdom" as another type of drugs. Heck, I even agree with that. We just have a sub-forum here titled Esoteric Wisdom so it was a bit surprising that you suddenly dismissed it altogether like that last time. However, if you want a more "serious" discussion on this subject, we'll have to begin with the "definitions," my friend, like we do with any scientific endeavor. What do we really mean by "esoteric wisdom"? We may be just talking about two different things here, so "definitions" at first is the compass for any serious discussion.

Secondly how it helps. It helps because there is an entire science of mind in those esoteric circles, treatises and books. So in brief, the more you know about your mind and how it works, the more you can control it. This is simply how it helps.

Finally, yes of course, like religion, philosophy, magic and several other mental practices, perhaps even scientific research itself, it could work as another type of drugs, another distraction, or another escape from a very stressful situation or reality. But if we were to get rid of all that may work as a drug or escape, we'd be left with very, very few things to do in this world, my friend.

Haha!
I read that subforum's name - "Esoteric Wisdom" and never clicked on it lolololol.
Figured that's going to be a playgorund for mental masturbation junkies.

I do agree on the fact that I am not aware of what you really mean by "esoteric wisdom".
I don't know the definitions. And also can't deny the possibility of us talking about two completely different things altogether.

Here is my point - Isn't that self explanatory? Esoteric? When in fact, LoA is something that we all are inherantly and genetically good at.

Well anyway, I'll let you folks fly with esoteric wisdom.

Lotus wrote:It'd be great if you could kindly give us more details on your method, Adi. Perhaps even in a new thread. I mean, this is easy to say, but how to actually get there, this is the challenge. For example, many do "make the committed decision," but they just can't keep up. They do know what they want, quite clearly, and they do make their decision, even start fully enthusiastic. Soon however they just fall again in the circle of despair or even depression. I have some answers, of course, but I'd like to know YOUR method and how you personally and practically do it. Perhaps your approach or "re-framing" is easier to understand and follow.

Thanks my friend for your post and please forgive me for this late answer. Take care and have a great Californian night.

Interesting.

I'll start a new thread regarding this very soon.
Perhaps, this new post will explain how simple it actually is (unlike mind fuck, mental masturbation esoteric wisdom )

"And yeah, I do agree that I have been a victim of this behavior/intention dilemma. Yes, there are way too many "kazoo"s out there in the world"

Why are these kind of comments necessary?  This is supposed to be a positive forum.

Believe it or not, every one of you was present in my mind when we put our very first color and code here. And, believe it or not, I swear, out of all troubles, at least 700 problems we had to solve here (according to our stats so far), the Kazoo-Maverick Problem was the first and most challenging in my mind, all the time.


Can you guys forget the past? Can you even realize that we are NOT the same persons we were just yesterday?

I apologize my dear lady on his behalf, and as a friend of him. He just has a few bad habits, like all of us. I even apologize for his earlier post here, where he needlessly shot at least two innuendos that you graciously ignored and let go. But as I said it's just an old habit. "Adi," by the way Posay, and not to confuse again with Adam, is Sanskrit for the Sun. Originally Aditya, but because Mr. Aditya indeed cares about people and wants their life easier, he preferred to come with the short form: Adi. (You may please read his earlier post here).

So from a maverick predator to a smiling sun, how can we say this is the same guy? He's not, definitely. We both just have our old habits. So let's please wipe the slate clean, create more room for each other and thus help each other develop instead some new, good ones. Will be back to you later. Take care and have a great day.

ah i didnt know there was a history between you both, well past is past i'm sure it can be let go, its all chilled and easy going here

adi/mav is a pussy cat really

posay wrote:So you say he's not whiny, then said he ended up whiny all because his name is Adam. Lol I didn't realise names were so important. Maybe he should change his name like you did.

Nope. I said he wouldn't feel as whiny if he came across with any other, lighter name. And yes, our names are of course so important. Didn't you notice, in almost all religions, that all "special" ones got their names before they were born inspired in dreams? So yes, your name is probably more important than you imagine my friend (the reason I found it quite hilarious how you chose yours by the way—Posay!) lol

Kazoo wrote:Lotus, I think what you have mentioned is the real area where people run into trouble. They can clearly see exactly what it is that they want and may even get started with a great deal of enthusiasm but for some reason end up falling back into their old habits and patterns. Overcoming this obstacle is what I was trying to get at with my "repeating patterns" thread. It just seems that changes are hard to make and even harder to sustain.

I definitely missed this thread, along with several others here. But who knows, we might reopen these treasures someday as we just did with this one.

The reason it's hard to change is that, our mind roughly consists of two main parts, let's call them A and B. "A" is the "template" of the mind, and the source of most of our thoughts. "B" is "thinker" part that gets thoughts popped up in apparently from nowhere. (Almost the same conscious vs. unconscious model so far). So the problem is this "loop," or automatic feedback between these two parts: if A is a "negative" template, for example, B will always think negatively (and we can't help it; negative thoughts just pop up in our mind all the time). So the challenge is to change A, the template itself. How to change this template? Ironically, only through B, by deliberately thinking positively. Only positive thoughts from B, or the thinker, can change the template gradually over time and turn it into a positive template. The same applies, needless to say, on confidence, success, openness, joy, etc.  

Reframing, Anchoring, and several other techniques may help along the way. But this is more or less what I expect Adi to tell us more about, so I'll be waiting for his thread as promised.


Thanks Adi. I'll be back tomorrow with my new reply, but probably quite late, please excuse me. Meanwhile I look forward to your new thread and I'm sure we'll all enjoy it and learn something from it. Be prepared for a thorny discussion though, because I might just choose to play the devil's advocate this time. It really feels good to play this game especially with people so confident like you. So till we meet again take care my friend and have a great night.

Hi Adi. Back as promised. First thank you again for your post. I just read it one more time and I really enjoyed it. I especially liked your openness and honesty talking about your life and your dreams; may they all come true my friend! You're also more receptive than ever before. Now for example you can gracefully admit you shouldn't really have crammed us all like that (and as gracefully before admitted your being "oxymoronic" at some point). Such little and minor details are very important indeed, because they're probably the only difference between a sound character and a disordered one. I'm particularly referring to the Superiority Complex, because some of your thoughts and words, especially in the past, were pointing in this direction.

We all have our old bad habits, though. For example, when I told you we should learn to pay more attention to others' intentions (as we do with ourselves), and also more attention to our own behavior (as we do with others), your reply was:

As psychologically pleasing and appealing this may sound but I don't see how this will help me get closer to my goals.

You can't get closer to your goals without first getting closer to people and building harmonious relationships with them. How can you succeed, in the common sense of the word, without people? Unless your goal was to seclude yourself in the Himalayas for a life of meditation, or any of such renunciative or ascetic goals, you'd always need people to achieve your goals. So how come you don't see the relation between having better understanding and relationships with people and achieving your goals?

Now moreover speaking of freedom, you remind me of Dr. Covey's well known "The 7 Habits..." For our full development we actually go through three stages: First Dependence: Here we are born and we rely totally on others to take care of us. We therefore aspire to grow and dream of the day we become free and independent. Second Independence: Now we're finally independent. We can take care of ourselves and make our own decisions. Yet this is not really the end of our journey and aspiration, or our characters' full development and potential as many would imagine. Third Interdependence: Here we rather cooperate with each other to achieve something that cannot be achieved independently. Here we're finally fully developed.

Our "success" culture tends to value independence and encourage people to be free and "do their own thing." In reality, however, we're interdependent, and success is only for those who, having become independent, choose to cooperate together and be interdependent. In Covey's book, which you probably read, therefore, the first three habits focus on self mastery and take us from dependence to independence (Be Proactive, Begin with the End in Mind, and Put First Things First). Then habits four, five and six rather address this final goal of interdependence (Think Win/Win, Seek First to Understand Then to Be Understood, and Synergize).

In the opposite direction of achievement and success we have those psychologically distorted and mentally disordered. Thus, words like "I don't care what other think" could be the sign of creativity and genius. They could be the expression of a free soul aspirating high, aiming for the stars, and courageously striving not to be with the low and mediocre. Yet the same words could also be a sign of mental disorder and superiority complex, with which one can hardly succeed or advance, let alone be happy, in this world.


In my opinion, the difference is how we think about those people, or those losers, whose thoughts we don't really care about. I believe we should still care about them, help them succeed as well, or at least show them how not to stay mediocre or accept mediocrity. It's like briefly meeting an idiot in the street, and having an idiot brother or son living with you in the same house, perhaps even depending on you for his life. In the latter case, you'd still care, try to help, take him to the doctors, keep following and searching for the best solution for his case, etc, etc. Why would you care? Because he's your brother—and because you're sane and sound.


Thus all in all, whether because we personally want to succeed, or because we are sane, rational and fully developed human beings, having good communications with others, establishing rapport with people, building positive relationships even with the mediocre, is either way essential, even crucial. Actually this is one reason why many a brilliant man ends up just another loser in this world.


Sorry for a lengthy reply, but I hope this answers your question and now you see how that will help you "get closer to your goals." There are a few other lines that I wish I could at least briefly comment on, but that was really long enough so perhaps later. Thanks again Adi for your post and have a great day, or night, wherever you are.

___________________________________


I apologize to Kazoo we all seem to have drifted away from the main topic lately. I checked for the last relevant post, to get it all back on track, and I guess it was this word from Night:

yeah i think silencing the mind will always be something that needs to be worked on, however i'm going to be a little bit controversial and say.. sometimes i enjoy the ego, i dont always want to quiet it.

I don't think this is really controversial, Night. We go to the movies to enjoy an illusion, right? We get emotional, moved by the beautiful story and awesome characters; they even briefly break our hearts although we know very well this is all but someone's imagination, or that those on the screen are not really Sara and Nelson, rather Hollywood superstars Charlize Theron and Keanu Reeves (speaking particularly of Sweet September here, just for example). Similarly, I guess you can enjoy the ego (meaning the illusion of a separate self, or persona, not in the sense of being egotistic). Why not? Why is this controversial, so long as we remain aware it's illusory?

Once life gets tough or harsh, however, you can always get back to the Truth, remember the illusory nature of absolutely everything, and reaffirm it to your mind to stop nagging, complaining, or feeling sorry for oneself.

yes Lotus exactly that, its good to be able to understand a bit of psychology and spirituality, as the ego can be quite a pleasant place to be, but it needs to be kept in check when the bad times are upon you, i've come to learn over the years that its not a bad thing to get upset or feel hurt or low, it happens, you just dont stay there or let it define you, embrace the happy fun side of the illusion and just take care of it when its sad

@Lotus: quoted: " Once life gets tough or harsh, however, you can always get back to the Truth, remember the illusory nature of absolutely everything, and reaffirm it to your mind to stop nagging, complaining, or feeling sorry for oneself. ♥ "

Lotus, do you explain this earlier in this thread, or, is there a "sticky" on this subject?
( where you explain " the illusory nature of everything )

Sounds interesting.

Thanks Rodan for your interest. No, I really don't think so. Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, we still have no material on this subject, with the exception perhaps of Indra's Net analogy, which says it indirectly.

And yes, it's very interesting of course. At least to me it really feels so. But when we come to explain it, many find it hard to understand, and more, many more, just "refuse" to understand. They actually don't "accept" it although quite logical.

You have no name. You were never born. You will never die. Almost all that you know about yourself is incorrect, and is only an illusion in the mind. Interesting? Like hell. But not everyone is ready to accept that, Rodan. It's as interesting as a Sci-Fi movie. But as a truth, it's rather dreadful. It threatens everything in our life. It takes even the "hero" from the "story," so the story immediately collapses. Our minds just refuse this collapse. Our minds rather feed on this illusory story, the reason we always have one (always seeking something, always trying to get somewhere, always feeling that something's missing, ...). It thus feels threatening and dreadful. Especially if you got it from Buddha, or the Buddha Way, it's very likely to even feel nihilistic.
   
Yet this threat, fear, or nihilism, is only the mind's last trick or maneuver defending its own self. Is it really nihilistic? On the contrary, when the hero goes, therefore the story collapses, consequently the mind finally gives up and withdraws, what actually remains is the heart itself. We finally get to the heart itself where resides our real Being; our divine Soul; our true I-AM—simply God Within. This is therefore our "abyss" to cross. It may not be easy or even pleasing. It'd rather take courage, persistence, and absolute honesty with oneself. But once we cross this abyss of the mind, we immediately get rid of our "veils," for the first time open our eyes and realize we were blind all along, because now we can finally see. And we are then home, finally; in infinite love, peace and bliss.
This is finally my favorite non-duality teacher Rupert Spira in a short dialog with a nice lady searching together for that illusory hero of the story, with focus on emotion. I hope you'll still find it interesting even when it comes to oneself. Therefore if, after this video, you still find it appealing, then we'll start a new thread on this subject, why not? Actually it's an amazing subject in my opinion. (Even more than that, this is the ONLY topic that I can give as much time as it takes without any regret, because it's the only non-illusory topic in this world). So thanks again Sir Rodan for your interest and, as I said before, for always opening such new horizons and spaces wherever you go. It's really a talent, as we see, or a gift; God bless you my friend.

Rodan, watch Rupert he is amazing, when Lotus introduced me to his videos i was blown away.

I can understand that the logical mind would have a difficult time understanding it, let alone even believing it.

I've come across similar situation with understanding the concept that we may be living in a holographic universe.

One author says he thinks " higher mind " brings in the information through our mind, into the physical. Our conscious mind, then, takes that information, through the " filters ", and work with what we get.

To try to explain it better, think of " higher mind " as the driver of a bus. Our conscious mind, is a passenger. As HM drives along, he watches our reaction to what we experience during the ride.

Now, this is a concept that is hard for us to accept, as, we like to feel we are in control. But, we are not. We are merely reacting to what is filtered to us from the universe.

Might be kinda similar to what you are saying . Lotus.

I will watch that video Lotus and Night Eyes.

Night Eyes wrote:Rodan, watch Rupert he is amazing, when Lotus introduced me to his videos i was blown away.

Interesting concept of where the " I " is.   Where is it? What is it? Rupert asks a very fair question, and, he's right, we really don't know where the " I " is.

Awareness. But, he says it's not the " I " of awareness.  

But, " awareness " is not is the " I ".

We hear words that upset us, well, what is that in us that becomes upset? We feel the results of being upset in our body, but, it is not the body that is upset.
If it's not the " I " of awareness, which or what " I " is it?

What is this " I " ?

It's not the body, it's not the thought,( a thought cannot be upset ) and, it's not awareness (open and empty space ), that becomes upset. So, what is it?  

Very interesting topic, Rupert discusses there with the lady.

We do spend a lot of time feeling upset on different experiences we go through.

I see the point.  Once we can dissect something that upsets us, causes us to feel bad,  go through the steps of trying to figure out what part of us is upset, well, you can't find it.  

It's a fictitious " I ".

Yep. lol. This is the greatest lie in everyone's life. There is no "I" or "self" in the first place. We're only watching a movie and we each just identify with a character on the screen. But it's a fictitious character. No one is really there. All is but a "projection" from the mind.

That's why in LOA and especially in Neville's system, you're supposed to work on this illusory "character" not on "your" circumstances. You're neither "Rodan the Millionaire" for example, nor "Rodan the Broke." You're neither, because you're not even Rodan. You're infinite Consciousness itself, far beyond and high above all of that. Rodan is just a character with a story on the screen of life. This is what we are to change through LOA. Rodan himself, in fact, can't do much, if at all. He's just an illusion. A projection. A thought in the mind. It's YOU in Rodan, you as infinite Consciousness, who create the change, "wear" this or that character, put on its persona, mask and cloths, "think" and "feel" like it might think and feel, and thus continuously "project" and "manifest" it on the screen accordingly. 


And this gracefully takes us back to our topic here: "detaching" and "letting go" is simply one way to get around this unbelievable truth. They just can't tell you this—that you are an illusion. So they instead ask you to let go—that is, ask the powerless illusion of Rodan to step aside so that YOU, albeit still hidden, may do the job.

In Neville's system, obviously much more advanced (actually Kabalistic), he doesn't ask you to "let go" because he primarily refuses to acknowledge you as Rodan. He teaches you to "identify" with who you really are right from the beginning.


See how all models beautifully connect and integrate in the end?

@Lotus: quote " See how all models beautifully connect and integrate in the end? "

Well, I'm still figuring that out. And, yes, they do provide a way of understanding how the universe operates.

Even Bunny's " health prayer ", she just recently posted, opened my eyes to understanding the comparison of the mind, body, spirit, to how the universe operates.

You mention we are " infinite Consciousness ".  

The " body " rodan " is an illusion, a finite character in this physical universe.  It can do nothing without the " rodan " infinite consciousness " ( IC ) at the controls.

Letting go, detaching from self, gives permission, allows,   " IC, to do it's bidding.

Our human mind cannot know what IC wants for us. What I mean is, we can't " think " or read the thoughts of IC.  

However, stepping out of the way, ( letting go, detaching ) is acknowledging to the universe we can do nothing without IC doing it.  

We cannot know the ways or means of how it's done, but, we take it on faith, believing, it is, by the hand of IC.

My opinion, of course, as of this time.

Lotus wrote:
Reframing, Anchoring, and several other techniques may help along the way. But this is more or less what I expect Adi to tell us more about, so I'll be waiting for his thread as promised.

Yes! You have right expectations.
Only thing is this not going to be a "theory" post. This is going to be a post that describes how I implemented the theory in my own life to get over bad habits and also to develop new habits.

Allow me a couple of days. Workload is super high these days. Often times I forget to go for dinner, calling my mom/girlfriend etc. let alone going on the internet . Plenty of "drama" as it is haha.

I'll be free over this friday night, that is when I will create a new thread.
The reason I am not typing it right now is because I am super tired and I'm not sure if I can articulate it correctly.

Lotus wrote:
Thanks Adi. I'll be back tomorrow with my new reply, but probably quite late, please excuse me. Meanwhile I look forward to your new thread and I'm sure we'll all enjoy it and learn something from it. Be prepared for a thorny discussion though, because I might just choose to play the devil's advocate this time. It really feels good to play this game especially with people so confident like you. So till we meet again take care my friend and have a great night.

***

Thank you.
And what are you talking about? "Thorny" discussion? With you?

Night Eyes wrote:adi/mav is a pussy cat really

<Random-Musing ng-self-amusement="true">

And Lotus, what the hell is this?
I call someone's name and she gets an apology from you, as my friend, on my behalf.
Now, Night calls me vulgar names, and you say nothing? What kinda friendship is this?

<Wild-Impersonation ng-douchebag="superman">
You're a hypocrite, Lotus.
</Wild-Impersonation>

</Random-Musing>


Regarding your new reply.

I understood what you said there. The post was clearly written and of great quality content.
It was kind of a "cheat sheet" for 7 habits of highly effective people.
The shortest book summary possible.
However, the question you wrote your answer to was "how does esoteric wisdom help me achieve my goals".
What you explained had nothing to do with esoteric wisdom.

Plus, I do agree that interpersonal relationships and building rapport with people is a vital ingredient of success.
However, over the years, I have learned many lessons.
One of them being "Not everybody likes me and I don't like everybody". And if I don't like somebody then that's it. I put no effort into improving my relationship with them. I wouldn't be considering how that person feels and stuff if I don't like them.
There are many of the people from these forums, that I know personally and online. If they choose to make it known publicly that they know me, you will get to see a brand new picture of me. If I consider you as my friend, then I'll go out of my way to give a fuck about my relationship with you.

Case in point, when it comes to interacting with people, I am not as much of a dumbass as I am seen online.

Another thing I don't understand is - why do I always have to be at the receiving end of the argument of "pay attention to the intentions, not behavior".
When in realuty, everyone seems to be so much focused on my behavior - especially online! lolololololol

I do agree on the fact that I can not say "give me the heat first and then I'll add the wood to the fire" haha.

rodan wrote:

Night Eyes wrote:Rodan, watch Rupert he is amazing, when Lotus introduced me to his videos i was blown away.

Interesting concept of where the " I " is.   Where is it? What is it?  Rupert asks a very fair question, and, he's right, we really don't know where the " I " is.

Awareness. But, he says it's not the " I " of awareness.  

But, " awareness " is not is the " I ".

We hear words that upset us, well, what is that in us that becomes upset? We feel the results of being upset in our body, but, it is not the body that is upset.
If it's not the " I " of awareness, which or what " I " is it?

What is this " I " ?

Haha!
Nice post!

You know what? Let's do one thing. Let's change this argument from the video a little bit.

Let's replace "somone said something mean to you"/"Somone insulted you" with something difference.
Let's say someone punched you in the face.

Who get's hurt? That's the same thing that get hurts with the insulting words.

Not to troll here, but just a genuine argument.

awww adi you knows i love you

Adi wrote:
Let's say someone punched you in the face.

Who get's hurt? That's the same thing that get hurts with the insulting words.

Not to troll here, but just a genuine argument.

Au contraire! You're absolutely right. Both pain (physical) and suffering (emotional or psychological) are in the system to get your attention and to inform you that something went wrong. In the case of a punch, you feel the pain to avoid the next one, because it might be damaging to the body or any of its parts. Life simply protects itself and its various "forms" and "expressions," albeit unreal, transitory, or illusory. In the case of suffering, the message is almost the same: "Pay attention; something's wrong!" You suffer when and only when you misidentify who you really are. You can't be Who You Are and suffer, ever, because Who You Are is permanently in infinite bliss. Actually you ARE Infinite Bliss, how could you suffer? Suffering, therefore, like pain, is just another, more sophisticated Guiding System to help you through your journey.


And yes, you're trolling of course because of all people on both boards you know very well what we're talking about here. The "separate, finite self" is an utter illusion, agree or disagree? C'mon boy!


Also why being querulous? Pussycat is vulgar??? The lady's from Wales, Mr. Aditya, and especially in British English pussycat is a "lovely, gentle person." You should've sent her a Thank You. But, you know, old habits are really hard to change.

More later. Will be back to you too, Rodan; you just raised another interesting point. I only had to comment promptly on that "Punch" example because, like all Materialists' tricks, it was really deceptive and confusing. No wonder particularly this time he uses programmers' codes and yet another set of "esoteric symbols!"

its ok Lotus, there's been a bit of confusion with Adi about where i'm from recently, so my post just got misunderstood, no big deal

Night Eyes wrote:its ok Lotus, there's been a bit of confusion with Adi about where i'm from recently, so my post just got misunderstood, no big deal

No no no, no misunderstanding at all. We were just having fun here, ma'am. He's fully aware of what you meant, of course. The context, at least, was quite clear. Wondeful to see him behind bars but truth is truth; this time he's really "not guilty." lol

Rodan wrote:
. . . ( IC ) at the controls.
. . . IC, to do it's bidding.
. . . Our human mind cannot know what IC wants for us.
. . . we can't " think " or read the thoughts of IC.  
. . . we can do nothing without IC doing it.   
. . . by the hand of IC.

All these sentences above, Rodan, give me the impression that you think of Infinite Consciousness as God—even in the traditional or religious sense of the word, particularly God the King, or the Lord, who has the "control" and "power," and who has "thoughts" or perhaps even "plans" for us. In my opinion, or better say in my "model," I don't see Infinite Consciousness like that. This is again off topic so I again have to apologize to Kazoo. I'll be brief anyway. In my opinion Infinite Consciousness has absolutely nothing to do with the world.

For a movie to ever exist, or manifest, there has to be a screen. The movie totally depends on the screen. We can't watch a movie without a screen on which the movie appears. The screen, however, has nothing to do with the movie or the story or the characters. It exists with or without the movie, and it's constantly in peace regardless of the movie or how scary or bloody it might appear. 
 
So, the screen is Infinite Consciousness (or just Consciousness to be brief). This Consciousness supports the whole movie of the world. The world cannot exist without this background of Consciousness, because everything is indeed made "of" Consciousness. Yet Consciousness itself, or Herself to be precise , is not by any means "worried" or "troubled" by the world, whatever happens in it. "God" in the western traditions, the Merciful who feels sorry for some, or the Powerful who gets angry at others, is still within the world and is himself part of the movie. (That's why in the Eastern traditions there could be "many" gods; even people can be gods and avatars of gods—literally speaking. They, like Jesus for example, can simply have all the powers we usually attribute to God). Infinite Consciousness, on the other hand, is still far beyond and high above all of that.


Our story begins with a "ripple" in the limitless ocean of Consciousness. This ripple is what we call a "thought." But with the advent of thought, the "mind" was born, and when the mind was born the world was born. In other words, the world totally depends on the mind, and the mind totally depends on Consciousness.

That's why we work on the mind, LOA speaking. Although everything is Consciousness, the mind is the real "sculptor" of everything in the world. The mind is the manifestor; is the "projector" that constantly drops our thoughts as a movie on the screen.


Therefore, with all due respect to all models and theories, no one really has any "thoughts" for me, or has any "control" whatsoever over my mind or life. Call it God, call it Soul, call it Higher Self, call it whatever you want, YOU ARE THE SUPREME INFINITE CONSCIOUSNESS ITSELF. PERIOD. You are not even in the movie, or have ever been part of this world. Our only prison, therefore, is in our mind. And our only freedom is from there.

Lotus ♥ wrote:

Rodan wrote:
. . . ( IC ) at the controls.
. . . IC, to do it's bidding.
. . . Our human mind cannot know what IC wants for us.
. . . we can't " think " or read the thoughts of IC.  
. . . we can do nothing without IC doing it.   
. . . by the hand of IC.

All these sentences above, Rodan, give me the impression that you think of Infinite Consciousness as God—even in the traditional or religious sense of the word, particularly God the King, or the Lord, who has the "control" and "power," and who has "thoughts" or perhaps even "plans" for us. In my opinion, or better say in my "model," I don't see Infinite Consciousness like that. ..............

Therefore, with all due respect to all models and theories, no one really has any "thoughts" for me, or has any "control" whatsoever over my mind or life. Call it God, call it Soul, call it Higher Self, call it whatever you want, YOU ARE THE SUPREME INFINITE CONSCIOUSNESS ITSELF. PERIOD. You are not even in the movie, or have ever been part of this world. Our only prison, therefore, is in our mind. And our only freedom is from there. ♥

* * *

Not consciously.  Not " God " in the traditional, religious sense,  although my reference to liking " Bunny's " prayer may indicate that.

rodan: " we can do nothing without IC doing it.  "

What I meant to write here:

" we can do nothing without the permission of IC."  

IC doesn't " do " it for us. IC " allows " it. IC permits it to happen.

(Although, now that I think of it, when circumstances manifest for us, maybe that is IC doing it.  I don't know.  That would be an indication of " God " doing it, or, a " god ". )

This would be the "  I ask for something of the universe, and, then,  let go , detach,  allow IC to manifest it, bring it into my physical world.

And, BTW, I'm not saying I "believe" this. If I did say or indicate that, permit me to retract that statement. I haven't closed that chapter in my life.
   
Think of these statements as a " model "  of mine.  I really don't lean on IC being " God " in the traditional sense, at least not consciously. Subconsciously, yes, I could have this belief.

I do have more of a holographic universe model I am entertaining, but, that's for another thread/topic.

Adi wrote:However, the question you wrote your answer to was "how does esoteric wisdom help me achieve my goals".
What you explained had nothing to do with esoteric wisdom.

Nope. Now you're cheating, Mr. Adi. Please go back to your post #53 in page 6 (here): Your "As psychologically pleasing and appealing this may sound but I don't see how this will help me get closer to my goals" was your very first comment in reply to my words on the intention-vs.-behavior quote. We were NOT talking about the esoteric wisdom at all. So you were just really busy and got a bit confused (or was just cheating, sir.)

One of them being "Not everybody likes me and I don't like everybody". And if I don't like somebody then that's it. I put no effort into improving my relationship with them. I wouldn't be considering how that person feels and stuff if I don't like them.
There are many of the people from these forums, that I know personally and online. If they choose to make it known publicly that they know me, you will get to see a brand new picture of me. If I consider you as my friend, then I'll go out of my way to give a fuck about my relationship with you.

Apart from the last line that I don't fully understand, I again agree with you my friend. (Actually we generally agree, about most issues, which I sincerely find amazing given how much difference we apparently have, or how we both seem to have come from totally different solar systems).

So yes of course. This is just the opposite pole in the duality, or the other extreme that may equally indicate psychological/mental troubles. Appealing to everyone or trying to please everyone probably implies lack of confidence and self esteem, or worse, a deep sense of inadequacy, which ignites this constant seeking of others' approval and validation. So yes, on one extreme (I don't care about anyone) we probably have superiority complex; on the other (I do care about everyone) we probably have a self-image/-concept issue.   

What I was referring to, however, is beyond this basic psychology. I was talking about our attitude, judgment and behavior with those we don't really like or feel very compatible with. True, you can just ignore them altogether. But practically in life, in your work place for example, or even on a forum like this, you're likely to meet and deal with them. You may even have to team up with one or more of them to get a specific task or project done on time. This is where Covey's Intention-vs.-Behavior lesson is most needed.

Another thing I don't understand is - why do I always have to be at the receiving end of the argument of "pay attention to the intentions, not behavior".
When in realuty, everyone seems to be so much focused on my behavior - especially online! lolololololol

No, not at all. I apologize if that was your impression, although I can fully understand the reason when it comes to any other friend. And the reason, simply, is that your talk about your "way" or "method" and how it was proven successful usually sounds dictatorial, even authoritarian. It doesn't leave or assume or even imply any room for any other method to be as valid, or to bring about results as successful. Moreover, you may even ridicule these other methods, again stressing the primacy of only yours. As a result, people feel invalidated, belittled, even insulted, as their opinions, ideas, thoughts, models, methods and ways all now sound stupid, unworthy of your consideration or at least discussion, let alone respect.

Although this doesn't really apply to our "esoteric wisdom" little argument, please look, just for example, what you said last about it (even after my reply and clarification to you):

Haha!
I read that subforum's name - "Esoteric Wisdom" and never clicked on it lolololol.
Figured that's going to be a playgorund for mental masturbation junkies.

I hope you got my point. If I really cared, or if "esoteric wisdom," the official name of a sub-forum here, was really my concern, or the sort of knowledge I firmly believe in and am totally into, how would such words feel then, in your opinion? How would I feel if I was really one of those junkies? Worse still, please note in this context, you neither clicked that link to know what that was all about, nor even read the description of this sub-forum outside, without clicking, to just find out what he heck we mean by this title. You, as genius as always, just "figured" out it was a "playground for mental masturbation junkies."

This, again, is just to illustrate the point. Fortunately I do understand you, my friend, and I do fully understand that you, unlike several others we've met on the web, never mean any of that really; never mean to deny or belittle or hurt anyone at all, but are rather loving and caring and do truly wish the best for everyone. Unfortunately, however, most people don't "see" your heart and intention, or even care; they only see and judge your words and behavior.