Log in

I forgot my password

Latest topics
» How numbness is keeping from you from miracles
by Spiritual Hustler Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:25 pm

» Missing You!
by Night Eyes Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:41 am

» Are you needing support?
by Spiritual Hustler Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:12 pm

» Becoming a devotee of Love
by Spiritual Hustler Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:50 pm

» Offering donation based LOA coaching!
by Spiritual Hustler Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:54 pm

» 6 weeks to happiness!
by Spiritual Hustler Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:56 pm

» Your year for Love and Happiness :)
by Spiritual Hustler Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:47 pm

» Invoking Venus to attract love :)
by Spiritual Hustler Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:20 pm

» A Journey of the Goddesses through the Chakra Systems
by Spiritual Hustler Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:38 pm

» Voting with vibration..
by Spiritual Hustler Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:34 pm

» How to FREE yourself from the story of pain :)
by Spiritual Hustler Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:55 pm

» The medicine of the Dark Goddess
by Spiritual Hustler Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:16 pm

» Build the Queendom and they will come
by Spiritual Hustler Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:13 pm

» How to feel loved when you are feeling sad
by Spiritual Hustler Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:35 am

» The Single Most Important Thing You can do for YOU
by Spiritual Hustler Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:18 pm

» Feel. Good. Now.
by Spiritual Hustler Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:02 pm

» Circumstances don’t matter..
by Spiritual Hustler Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:04 pm

» You are already on the right path to everything you desire
by Roxychick Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:39 am

Top posting users this week

Top 10 Topics
• Neville's Teachings
• Manifesting through the Law of Giving / Recieving
• "Build it and it will come"
• 7 day manifestation experiment
• Limiting Beliefs
• "Attachment" and "Letting Go"
• On Suffering and Avoiding (Spira)
• What are you grateful for today?
• Procrastination and Laziness
• The "Others"

Poll

What is your favourite type of exercise?

0% 0% [ 0 ]
33% 33% [ 1 ]
0% 0% [ 0 ]
0% 0% [ 0 ]
33% 33% [ 1 ]
0% 0% [ 0 ]
0% 0% [ 0 ]
33% 33% [ 1 ]
0% 0% [ 0 ]
0% 0% [ 0 ]

Total Votes : 3

September 2017
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
252627282930 

Calendar Calendar

Current Moon

Le Cafe Moon
Horoscopes
Gallery




The "others"

Page 1 of 5 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

The "others"

Post by kazoo on Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:25 am

Some fellow we may remember who called himself Zorba Wink created a thread over at the other place about the "others" and I figured I'd continue the subject here.

There are many different theories and ideas when it comes to the other people who inhabit our realities. Some believe that all of those in our reality are a completely of our own making, a projection of ourselves. Others believe that we we co-create our experiences with others who agree to be part of our reality and we agree to be part of theirs. (I believe Bashar talks about this...) And then there is the belief that everyone has their own free will and while we can influence others with our thoughts and actions, we really can't ultimately control what they do.

So, what does everyone here believe?
avatar
kazoo
Founder
Founder

Female
Posts : 280
Points : 1679
Thanks : 1333


Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by rodan on Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:23 am

I haven't been over there in a long while, but, if it's an older thread I've probably read some of it. ( the "other's" thread, maybe I'll go back there to check that out )

In my journey, my thoughts/beliefs about reality keep changing, evolving, as I learn.

As humans ( or being characters in a simulation, if you go that way ) we think, we are aware. Awareness shows we do exist.  We have to remember, though, we are on the " inside " of this reality. We are characters in this simulation.  

IF we could somehow, get outside the box, we would have a much better understanding of what reality is all about, but, we can't.  

I know there are those that, through meditation, leave their bodies and experience whatever is there, and return, even remembering where they have been.  But, is this really being outside the box?  Could it just be another aspect of the character inside this simulation?

We really just don't know.  

The wild notion I have, and, it's the answer I have, to your last sentence,  " So what does everyone here believe?"

Reality is, whatever we believe it is.  In the words of the teachers and prophets,  " it is done according to your belief . "

It is as you believe.  

Your reality, is as you believe it is.  

Your create a reality according to what you believe.

Now, I say this, but, how do others' realities intertwine with ours?  If ,we as individuals, are living a reality that only exists because of our awareness, can we, or do we affect others' , individual realities.  

We already know, if something happens to someone else, it affects our reality.  But, what about theirs? From their viewpoint?  

And, there is is the concept of many worlds.  Within the past 75 years, physicists have learned of the quantum world, how different it is, how it operates.  And, it's because of this quantum world, that reinforces that, you changes things and events because of your thoughts, your beliefs.

Great thread, Kazoo! Smile
avatar
rodan
Founder
Founder

Male
Posts : 145
Points : 749
Thanks : 538


Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by kazoo on Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:59 am

Thanks Rodan!

I'm not quite sure what I believe.  As usual, it's probably a mix of all of them, even if it is contradictory!

So here's a scenario I was pondering.  Say I'm a caretaker of a child.  I am not naturally a worrier but the child's mother is.  She's always worried that the child is going to get sick or have an accident.  Sure enough one day I take the child to the park and she falls from a swing and breaks her arm.  

So what exactly is in play here?  If I was the sole creator of not just myself but of everyone in my reality, then I created myself as someone who isn't a worrier but then I also created the mother who is.  So that would mean that there really IS some aspect of me who is a worrier, right?

If we are all co-creators, well then we have three people who are involved in this creation.  Despite the fact that I may not be a worrier, the mother's worrying has not only subconsciously influenced me, but also her child (who is being programmed to be a worrier too), causing this accident to happen, right?  

She's also creating her own reality where she is a worrier and bad things are always gonna happen but then she also created me (a non-worrier) as part of her reality too?  So there is some aspect to HER that doesn't worry?

In this case the mother's worries were enough to override whatever beliefs the child and I had.  Well something about that doesn't sit right with me.  I don't like the idea of someone else's worries creating MY reality!  But that very well may be the case.  We probably don't like the idea that we are being influenced by others all the time but do like the idea that we have the ability to do the influencing.

But then again, if I am the sole creator of my reality and all of those within it, then I created all of it myself and I really can't blame the accident on the mother's worries, it was all me, all along.

But you're right, I suppose it does come down to what it is we believe.  And if we believe we are influenced by others, then we will be.  If we believe we are the sole creators then we can have that too.  But I really think REALLY believing that we are the sole creators of our reality is difficult to achieve.


Last edited by kazoo on Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total
avatar
kazoo
Founder
Founder

Female
Posts : 280
Points : 1679
Thanks : 1333


Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by Night Eyes on Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:12 am

i'm the same, i'm really not sure what i believe, i seem to read all these different beliefs and be open minded to them all in some way

i think for me i think that maybe the people in our lives are a reflection of some part of us, and they come and go and things happen, going on how we think and feel at the time, but then i also believe that we are reflections of these people too, kind of the like attracts like idea... i think the only thing i know i really believe is everyones connected... how we're connected i'm pretty open minded about

but even on a psychological level, its known that to hurt someone else, does emotionally hurt yourself in some sort of way... so even thats some kind of connection

and sometimes i'll watch something, even the flash mobs Lotus posted... and i'll feel so emotionally lifted and happy.. i may aswell be there in that moment sharing the joy and love.... connection again


yeah so as you can see my word of the day is connected haha

NightEyes Special 1
avatar
Night Eyes
Top Poster
Top Poster

Female
Posts : 1406
Points : 5895
Thanks : 4363

Zodiac : Aquarius
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by kazoo on Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:40 am



Here is what Bashar says.  (Not sure why the video maker put that distracting music in there.)

Another Bashar video:



Neither one of them are the videos I was looking for where he explains what I was getting at but they get across the point.
avatar
kazoo
Founder
Founder

Female
Posts : 280
Points : 1679
Thanks : 1333


Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by rodan on Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:39 am

I liked that caretaker/mother scenario. I've never thought about it like that. It's interesting. This leads me to the thought of how we, humans, came to be.

We are born into this physical world, from a union of a male and female, our parents.

We don't just " appear " as a full functioning adult. We go through a process.

It could have been set up that way. What I mean is, the maker of the simulation could have just put us here as adults, not having to go through the whole process of being born, go through childhood, etc.

But, it wasn't. We do go through the whole, conception, birth, baby, childhood, get a job, grow old, then, death, a start to finish, process.

Our beliefs will conform to that scenario. But, could that be changed? Could we not, through belief, switch to another reality, where, we are a different person, even of a different age, or, gender?

When you look at the life of some prominent person, let's use Adolf Hitler. I know, why him? Well, because of what he did to the world, affecting most of the lives on the planet at that time. Yes, he was a bad ass, a poor excuse of a human being, but, bear with me on this.

Hitler had a strong, passionate belief. He wanted a world with only the aryan race being here. He hated the jews so much, he started exterminated them. Over six million, and, that's a conservative figure.

He wanted to be dictator of the whole world. If you've studied history at that time, he almost succeeded.

I used this example to show this:

Everyone that lived, during that period, ( thirties, forties, ) was aware of Hitler, and, what he was doing. It affected their lives. Their realities. Unless you lived in an isolated area from the rest of the world, that affected you.

So, the beliefs of another, can affect, have influence, on everyone's reality.

Now, the bazaar thing, Hitler may have, in another reality, won over the planet. There very well may be a reality where the aryan race is the sole race of human beings on this planet. Kinda wild thinking, but, attribute that to the many worlds theory. Quantum physics.



avatar
rodan
Founder
Founder

Male
Posts : 145
Points : 749
Thanks : 538


Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by kazoo on Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:58 am

Do we appear in this world as blank slates?  Or is there some sort of "pre-existence" that we inhabit until we get here in the form we currently inhabit?  Who knows?

I remember that kind soul Zorba suggesting to a poster over at the other forum who was obsessed with being taller that we determined our height (and all of our physical traits I suppose) before we ever got here.  Was it really us or was it our parents projection of us?  Both?  

Can we ever really wrap our minds around the possibility that if we do indeed create our entire reality, and everyone in it that our parents didn't create us but rather WE in fact created THEM?  (Mind blown!)

If there are indeed multiple realities then there could be a reality where Hitler was triumphant.  Perhaps that's the reality he ultimately inhabited (along with those who believed his cause would be triumphant) and we inhabit a reality where he didn't succeed because that's not the reality we chose to inhabit?

Interesting stuff to ponder.
avatar
kazoo
Founder
Founder

Female
Posts : 280
Points : 1679
Thanks : 1333


Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by Guest on Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:25 pm

Kazoo, that made my head hurt (in a good way - though the idea of a triumphant Hitler is unspeakable--probably the best argument against alternate realities that I know of!).

I wanted to share a couple of my favourite videos about multiple universes, featuring Max Tegmark (MIT).

"Space ends here - mind the gap"


(in this one, see especially the 12 minute mark on decisions and the branching out of different realities)


(and yes, the fact that he's ridiculously cute helps as well Very Happy )

(and yes, I am indeed procrastinating; I was apparently going to leave foruming alone for a few days...oops...!!)

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by Night Eyes on Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:21 pm

i always found John Lockes Tabula Rasa theory interesting, not saying i agree with it though, i guess it opens up to the whole nature vs nuture debate though

_________________
NightEyes Special 1
avatar
Night Eyes
Top Poster
Top Poster

Female
Posts : 1406
Points : 5895
Thanks : 4363

Zodiac : Aquarius
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by kazoo on Sun Aug 16, 2015 3:16 pm

Some interesting related articles about collective false memories:

https://www.yahoo.com/health/your-whole-life-is-a-lie-its-berenstain-bears-126604020432.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/berenstain-bears-debate-is-a-case-of-schrodingers-nostalgia/article25972071/


I think it relates to what we are discussing.

It kind of related to an example Rodan had in another thread about multiple witnesses to an accident having different versions of what happened. We can come up with all kinds of explanations about memory etc. to explain it. Could these different memories be explained other ways? Especially when there are a significant number of people who share the same memory?

Rodan, maybe we DO arrive here as fully conscious adults? We are all aware of Hitler even tho we all presumably were born after he died. (Even Lunar who apparently was born in 1947!) We all live a reality where we are aware of dinosaurs and the ancient Greeks etc. So if all of that was of our making, a projection of ourselves, why wouldn't our own personal history work that way too?

Haha, Selina, my head was kind of spinning too! Thanks for sharing the links. I'll check them out.

avatar
kazoo
Founder
Founder

Female
Posts : 280
Points : 1679
Thanks : 1333


Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by rodan on Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:58 pm

Kazoo posted: " Rodan, maybe we DO arrive here as fully conscious adults? We are all aware of Hitler even tho we all presumably were born after he died. (Even Lunar who apparently was born in 1947!) We all live a reality where we are aware of dinosaurs and the ancient Greeks etc. So if all of that was of our making, a projection of ourselves, why wouldn't our own personal history work that way too?" unquote.

I guess that is a possibility. We arrive here as adults. We project our own personal history, might work this way, too.

Maybe we've always been here. In that respect, I referring to our consciousness, not physical body. Our consciousness could, take form, as any age, anyone,.....well, even, anything. It's always been here, and, always will be here.

There is news that one day, in the not too distant future, around 2035, maybe a bit longer.....we will be able to upload our consciousness into a computer, for that matter ,a computer operated robot. Now, that thought spins my head, if not spinning from all the other information we just went over in this thread.

avatar
rodan
Founder
Founder

Male
Posts : 145
Points : 749
Thanks : 538


Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by rodan on Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:05 pm

Thanks for those links to Max Tegmark, Selina. I don't think I've ever studied any of his work.



avatar
rodan
Founder
Founder

Male
Posts : 145
Points : 749
Thanks : 538


Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by Lotus ♥ on Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:41 pm

Thanks Kazoo for this topic and for the beautiful memory. That was exactly one year ago, and I believe that was the last "golden age" on PLOA, with such unforgettable names sharing in the discussion as Moretocome, Desideratum, Waterfall, Rodan, Gopal, Zorba... (yes Rodan was there, of course). Not to mention you, As & I, Newman, BB9 and several others, who may not have fully agreed with my views but still followed and cordially supported the discussion. Those were truly beautiful days and that was definitely the last golden age on that forum (so far; I rather wish them over there all the best; may better, brighter members join and more golden ages be in store for them).

One year later, I still maintain the same view—that we are all one. I've even deepened it much further. However, I've also become more receptive to the opposite view, because now I see more clearly the "duality" and "polarity" of everything. It's a paradox. We are either one, or many. But we are both. The truth therefore is beyond logic, beyond mind, and consequently beyond language. We simply cannot express or communicate the truth in this clumsy, duality-based language. This is, in my opinion, why most of us are not sure what we believe, or feel like we loosely believe in a "mix" of all views as you, Kazoo, put it. It's just paradoxical, contradictory, beyond both mind and language. So we know it deep inside, feel it, experience it, but we really can't put it in thoughts/words—and when we try we rather feel unsure or even confused.

Therefore, instead of only adding up to this "mental" confusion, let me in the rest of this post only explain, briefly, why I disagree with Bashar.

* * *

In Bashar's view, or model, we create our reality—and we each are the only creator there is. "The others" therefore is a real problem in this model (shared also by several authors and teachers not only Bashar, like S. Pavlina for example). To maintain the basic premise, "we each are the sole creator of our reality," Bashar, Pavlina and the like had to dismiss "the others" completely. In Bashar's view, for example, the others are only "versions" in our own world. This is not Lotus, for example; this is only a "version of Lotus" that you, and only you, manifested in your world to write these words. Lotus, in Rodan's world, is another version of Lotus; in Selina's, yet another, and so on. Inevitably, we ended up in different, parallel worlds—seven billion worlds. And while we "seem" to be together here, sharing this one world, we each are actually all alone in our isolated worlds, where we, the "original" or "real" Lotus, or Kazoo or Selina, each live with only "versions" of everyone else—version that we solely create.

True. Actually almost perfect. But Bashar, in my humble opinion, made a mistake, and it was a big mistake, indeed. To fully understand this mistake, I need to first explain, still in brief, my own model of "reality."


Let's get back to our objective, ordinary, daily reality, and let's look at the moon, for example. When we both look at the moon and say, "The moon is beautiful tonight," we think there is a moon out there, one moon, and we, the two of us, are here together in this one world perceiving, recognizing and judging the beauty of the moon through our two minds. Moreover, because my mind is not exactly the same as your mind, we may disagree about this beauty of the moon. I may therefore say in response, "Yes, it's very beautiful," but I may instead say, "No, not really that beautiful; you need to see how the moon looks in the desert."

Therefore, all in all, we believe we are seven billion people sharing this one common world, where it's still the moon up there, one moon, for all of us, although we may disagree about its beauty or generally about any of such intangible concepts and values in this common world.

But what if it was exactly the opposite? Instead of seven billion people/minds in one common world, how about seven billion worlds in one common mind?


Let me tell you the story again from this perspective: When we both look at the moon, we actually don't see the same one moon. There are two moons, in two different worlds, but they do look the same moon—or almost the same—because both worlds originate, arise and stem from the same one mind.  

Let's take another, even clearer example. Let's assume that we each have our own radio set, and that we each live in a different street. Then, we both happened to tune in to the same radio station, and it was, say, Oprah talking. Now, is Oprah's voice on your radio the same voice on mine? Yes, you might say; we usually think it's the same voice. But the truth is, it's not even Oprah's voice on our radio sets. How could it be? What we hear on our radio sets is a "representation" of Oprah's voice. We therefore have two "representations" of her voice, although they may sound exactly the same.

This is precisely how we perceive reality, which is all based, as already known, on the same laws and principles of frequency, or vibration.

Thus, when we look at the moon, we each perceive a different "representation" of the moon—both "transmitted" by the one Mind—exactly as we perceived two similar still different representations of Oprah's voice.  

* * *

Back to Bashar: Bashar—to keep on the safe side, or to keep simple, or to keep appealing; whatever his reasons were—didn't acknowledge this one Mind, or Source-Mind. He therefore had to "split" the world into seven billion worlds, in which seven billion individual minds are separately creating everything and everyone. Otherwise, he'd have to admit, that Lotus is but a "representation" himself. There is no such thing as the "original" or the "real" Lotus in the first place. Lotus is only an idea, a "mental construct," in the Mind, and what we see here is only the "projection" of this idea—or only the "transmission" that we all wrongly perceive and believe to be real—as we all wrongly perceived Oprah's voice on our radio sets as her real, very voice.


That's why in magic, by the way, realizing that what we deal with here are only representations, we also use "representations" to, for example, remotely influence others. The "voodoo doll" is a very clear instance. The voodoo doll may "represent" someone exactly as their very body would. Voodoo witches first "key" the doll; that is, create in their subconscious mind a link between the doll and the target. The doll therefore "becomes" the target—literally. From this point on, whatever you do to the doll will be done to the target, regardless of where she or he might be in the world. And this includes even killing, literally, the target.


Even more than that, because all we have here are only representations, we are all magicians. We are inevitably magicians, because we all use language, which is but a set of "symbols"—another word for "representations." Whether you write,

"I you,"
or
"I love you,"
either way you're practicing a pure act of magic, using symbols/representations to transmit to the others' subconscious a specific feeling or experience. That's why words have such a tremendous power on us. They can make us happy, or sad, or angry; fill us instantly with joy and peace, or turn us totally mad as if suddenly obsessed by demons. As if? No, we do get literally obsessed by demons, at least for a brief time, although we now give these demons a different, more scientific name. Yet, whatever the mane might be, we are all, inevitably, magicians, playing all the time with all these symbols.

* * *

Obviously this topic is very wide, deep and interesting and, it seems, I can keep writing on this and its various applications in our life for days. Very Happy Please excuse me for this lengthy post. I just wanted to make it as simple and accessible as possible. Last time I wrote about "seven billion worlds in one mind" instead of "seven billion minds in one world," on PLOA, I rather lost contact with the young lady I wrote this to—and it took her about three months before she could, very hesitantly, initiate the communications again. lol

* * *
avatar
Lotus ♥
His/Her Highness
His/Her Highness

Male
Posts : 339
Points : 1852
Thanks : 1499


Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by Lotus ♥ on Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:57 pm

SelinaM wrote:
(and yes, I am indeed procrastinating; I was apparently going to leave foruming alone for a few days...oops...!!)

Night apparently didn't notice this tiny hint. Very Happy

No, my dear princess, you're not foruming alone. First of all, you're our Top Poster here, which simply means nobody could catch up with you, for more than two weeks now (or you wouldn't have been a Top Poster, would you?) Very Happy

Secondly, with you, it's not only the quantity but also the quality. You're very resourceful, very cultured and well-educated, let alone your fine taste and sense of beauty, so you always send us such masterpieces that we may sometimes even receive in awe, but may not be able to comment on right away, if at all. Smiley

Thirdly, we, the active ones, are still very few. Besides, as you know, I personally can't answer even my private messages and emails. Actually on PLOA, My PM option was always disabled, and I still could write only once or twice per week. So even Lotus can't be that active really after all (and I by the way sincerely apologize to all of you who honored me by their private messages. I'll take tomorrow off especially for this purpose; to answer hopefully all of you).


These reasons, and others, may really give you the impression that you're "foruming alone." But you are not, my dear lady. You, perhaps, just don't receive enough "interaction." But this is the case with almost everyone, believe it or not. I assure you that Roosevelt, just for example, given his recent activity on the forum and the quality of his latest posts, didn't receive enough interaction either.

However, we are not only "foruming" here yet; we are first "building" a forum—and a very good one indeed. That was one reason I told you earlier to please just say "Bonjour," but keep saying it. I know how it feels when we don't get enough interaction. I know why Mara, Bunny and perhaps even Ivy, are not very active. Yet it's a matter of time. Are we constantly aware we are building a great forum here, therefore only doing our best and are patient about the rewards? This awareness, I believe, is the main factor that will decide our time and for how long we'll keep building, because if everyone thought/felt they don't get enough interaction, or as many replies as their topics and posts rightly deserve, or are "foruming alone"; if everyone thought/felt so, I assure you it'd be a very, very long time. Very Happy

Yet, for the record, I know, Selina, you're not going a bit less active because of this; I know about your deadlines. My message therefore is not only or precisely to you; but through you a reminder for all of us, especially those impatient and those who may so soon feel frustrated or tired.


Besides, it might be Selina Concerto after all, right? Smiley In concertos, you know, there is always a master soloist, playing alone most of the time, while all other masters, the entire orchestra, just keep silent, listening, and waiting only for their few cues.

Let me give you an example: Katica Illényi, here playing the amazing Por una Cabeza, better known as the "Scent of a Woman" tango. Smiley


So perhaps it's just your solo, Selina. Actually it IS. So enjoy the music, ma'am, and play on. ♥️

* * *
avatar
Lotus ♥
His/Her Highness
His/Her Highness

Male
Posts : 339
Points : 1852
Thanks : 1499


Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by Guest on Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:33 am

Ah, Lotus, here I am apparently breakfasting and librarying and stress-outedly deadlinesing but instead I am foruming because I quickly checked in and, voila, incroyable, an Unidentified Flying Lotus sweepeth across the forum.

Your first post here made my head ache even more than Kazoo's post recently did, but in a still better way.

You reminded me of Alan Watts:

"What you call the 'external world' is as much you as your own body."



On another "note", however - your second message here in equal parts flattered and horrified me! While every young music theory student is taught that the word "concerto" comes from the Latin "concertare", "to agree, act together" and the Italian "to compete, contend", and knows that a concerto is in equal parts a competition between soloist and orchestra and a conversation between the soloist and orchestra, I do not see myself as the soloist here! Rather, I would like to think that we are all playing chamber music together, a group of varying sizes, sometimes quartet, sometimes quintet, sometimes octet. I am the violinist, I admit, because I cannot ever escape my soul --



Here you see Rodan (piano), Kazoo (cello), Night Eyes (viola), Lotus (double bass), and Selina (violin) engaged in the conversation of chamber music.

Although the violinist is usually very slightly diva-ish, she or he is never "soloist" in this conversation. And in this thread in particular, her vocalisations are a little *tentative*.

Or of course I can think of another analogy. You say concerto, I say concerto! There is also the concerto grosso, a group of soloists (the concertino) conversing/competing with the rest of the musicians (the ripieno). I'd say that we, all of us, actively participating here at Le Cafe form the concertino, whereas members and guests who are mostly in the background but do occasionally pop up are the ripieno, skilfully and delightfully complementing us "stars" --- who would actually be nowhere without their sometimes shadowy friends.



So, my dear sir, this is never, not even on my most active days, a Selina Concerto. It is, and always will be, the Le Cafe Concerto. I love you

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by Night Eyes on Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:11 am

what didnt i notice? give me a chance i've only just woken up Razz 2


_________________
NightEyes Special 1
avatar
Night Eyes
Top Poster
Top Poster

Female
Posts : 1406
Points : 5895
Thanks : 4363

Zodiac : Aquarius
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by Night Eyes on Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:14 am

ohhh the 'foruming alone' in red????

Selinas not alone.... i'm always here i just dont have the intelligence to respond to half her posts... or yours Lotus... its going to take me at least 3 reads... then you'll probably get a 3 line response..... if we were talking about it, i could have a lovely face to face conversation on these subjects... but writing my thoughts down has always been another story for poor Night Eyes...

_________________
NightEyes Special 1
avatar
Night Eyes
Top Poster
Top Poster

Female
Posts : 1406
Points : 5895
Thanks : 4363

Zodiac : Aquarius
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by lunareclipse on Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:54 am

Ahhmagaaash this subject is so long and drives you crazy the more you think about it.

If Rodan's version of the reality being whatever you believe it to be is correct then the only way it makes sense is if everything is a big illusion, a dream and non of you exist, other than in my mind. You are all reflections or projections in my world and I am basically just having a conversation with myself here every day Wink Whatever you say in return, is irrelevant, because it's just a projection of my own mind making it appear as if there is someone else talking.
In that case we do create our own reality 100% and the best way to get mind around it is to imagine life being like a big dream. When in a dream you can have conversations with extremely realistic looking people, it all makes sense, but when you wake up, you realize that was only a dream and it all happened in your mind. If you ever had a longer controlled lucid dream, you know what I mean- everything in a dream is realistic to ALL senses. Although curiously the ONLY thing that is always different in a lucid dream is the self. When you look in the mirror, it's always some everchanging monstrous blob and if you look at your hands, they are completely unrealistic.

For the child caretaker scenario- as a mother, i guarantee, that a vast majority of mother's fears luckily does not manifest. Otherwise we'd all die of SIDS, be kidnapped, raped, murdered or die of any other horrible way, because mothers always worry and fear for their kids.
But possibly in a given scenario a mother might be certain that at her watch, everything is under control, but if she allows someone else to look after her child- she doesn't have that power and something bad might happen. Since you're not a worrier, you might still be in a place of no resistance. Meaning you don't particularly think one way or the other. If you were to say absolutely confidently "Absolutely no way will that child fall and break her arm!" it would lead to one reality, but since you kind of leave it open and not think about it at all, she might break her arm.
And now the other theories come to play- what if she broke her arm with  a reason and not because of a fear at all? What if she broke it so that her single mother could meet her attractive doctor and remarry and that would've never happened unless the kid broke her arm? The fact is that you might be a non-worrier, but that doesn't mean that bad things never happen to you.

Let's take another example, a bit more out there. Jerry Hicks' death, but from Esther Hicks' perspective.
Did she create it with her fears of failure, fear of  losing him or fear that something might happen to make people believe she was a fraud?
Did Jerry create it with HIS fears? Or did it just happen because big things, such as a soul leaving a body ARE predetermined and can not be changed with LOA and in that case- did they know it and not even tried to change it or did they try to change it but failed because these things can't be changed, or otherwise nobody would ever die if everyone learned to use LOA consciously, cause there would always be someone who would want to keep you around Very Happy
Or in case it's all a dream and non of it exists, then I just created it myself out of my subconscious doubts of Abraham's legitimacy (is that a word lol?)

rodan wrote:
When you look at the life of some prominent person, let's use Adolf Hitler. I know, why him? Well, because of what he did to the world, affecting most of the lives on the planet at that time.  Yes, he was a bad ass, a poor excuse of a human being, but, bear with me on this.

Not too long ago I watched this documentary about Hitler called 'The greatest story never told" that told the whole thing in a different light. How Germany was almost dying, people had no jobs, lived in poverty and economy was on a verge of collapse. Hitler turned it all around and people prospered. He was truly loved and admired at the time. Actually that's another subject and a long one so I just leave it at that.

kazoo wrote:
Can we ever really wrap our minds around the possibility that if we do indeed create our entire reality, and everyone in it that our parents didn't create us but rather WE in fact created THEM?  (Mind blown!)
I think I tend to incline a little more towards Bashar's co-creation theory. I believe we chose them and agreed to create certain lessons and beliefs that would mold us into who we become.

About Berenstein/Berenstain theory- funny tflo was just posting about it at the other forum today, did you get the idea from there or did it just synchronize this way?
I do believe in parallel realities, but not in that case as an example. I think they were created as Berenstains, but some people just assumed they were called Berensteins and it got interpreted into pictures and logos along the line. Berenstain just sounds like bad grammar to many, because the suffix -Stein is a common German/Jewish last name, such as Frankenstein. -Stain is not common or as far as I know, used at all, so -Stein just seemed natural.

Lotus ♥️ wrote:
One year later, I still maintain the same view—that we are all one. I've even deepened it much further. However, I've also become more receptive to the opposite view, because now I see more clearly the "duality" and "polarity" of everything. It's a paradox. We are either one, or many. But we are both.
I'm confused to why you would say you don't agree with Bashar, because this is exactly what he says. In fact even in Kazoos second Bashar video he says - it's not this OR that it's this AND that.
Bashar's second law of creation is The One is All and All is One. You are both One experiencing itself from many different perspectives and many consciousnesses being connected into one.
He says initially there was All-that-is, or the one, but in order to have an awareness of itself, it had to split itself and create the polarity. So really it's like a huge Indra's net where each pearl has a consciousness of its own and a unique perspective, yet reflects each other pearl.
You already know all that so it confuses me why you would say Bashar made a mistake and then state exactly what he says idk maybe I'm just slow like that Facepalm

There is another recording I have where a guy asks Bashar exactly about creation vs co-creation and he says it's both. It's a longer conversation but as far as I know there's no Youtube video of it. If you wish, I might try to find it in my Bashar stash Smiley

Another way to interpret "you create your version of that person in your reality" might also be that a person might act a certain way with you, even if he never acted this way before (although I do understand that the way Bashar means it is that we each literally live in our own different universes or realities). For example, say a boy meets girl, they start dating, but the girl somehow brings out a side of him, that he never knew existed. Say the girl has chosen to experience the idea of devaluation and regaining of self worth. She has had a bad experience with abusive father and now attracts other similar relationships to her life. So due to her belief systems, she becomes clingy, victimizes herself and leads the guy into a relationship where he becomes abusive, even if he has never been that way before. He might then be disgusted and shocked with his own self, but had the girl had different beliefs and upbringing, she could've created a relationship with a different version of the same guy, that is not abusive.

Lotus ♥️ wrote:
Let's get back to our objective, ordinary, daily reality, and let's look at the moon, for example. When we both look at the moon and say, "The moon is beautiful tonight," we think there is a moon out there, one moon, and we, the two of us, are here together in this one world perceiving, recognizing and judging the beauty of the moon through our two minds.
At the beginning I thought- "What are you talking about, the Moon is ALWAYS beautiful of course" but then I tried to put it into a different perspective. Say we are all in the same room and Justin Bieber (one and only for all of us) walks in, but we all perceive it differently-
Night Eyes of course faints from sheer adoration
Selina claps hands in delight and takes a selfie with him cause it's a celebrity.
Posay quickly plugs in her iPod with the latest hits of the Bagpipe Boys
Rodan is flabbergasted and appalled and quickly starts moving towards the exit
Lotus initially allows a grimace of disgust appear, but then remembers that ALL music is a beautiful form of art and quickly collects his composure, maybe even does a little hippy-shake


and then there are things we just perceive differently, regardless of personal preference, such as the "is the damn dress gold and white or blue and black?" although I think it would be more fun if it were like the movie Shallow Hal, where the guy sees a size 0 Gwyneth Paltrow whereas everyone else sees her as heavily overweight.

Perhaps it's like Sims and we all go into life as into a big game where we give up the memory of what we really are and experience the reality from our own point of view, the reality is really a program, where the moon appears the same to me and you, but is really just a code of 1s and 0s that translates into "the moon" to whoever sees it in his reality? So I get your comparison of radio frequency and Oprah, it's not even the moon, but the idea of it created as a code. Really we (the real us or what we call "higher selves") are off somewhere fiddling with the game controls while our sims have no memory of what we really are and the world is only a program. But then where does LOA fit in? Who creates the game? Your sim, the big you who has the controls, your sim cocreates it with other sims or the real you creates it behind the scenes with the real persons of the other sims? Yes it's late and my head hurts.

But I have another question that I have been wondering- since most people are not aware of the LOA and we are- Did we then choose to have the experience of becoming aware of the LOA as a part of our journey because our main intention for this life was to regain awareness of our power and then create our dream world consciously from within this world?

_________________
"There is no one torturing you except yourself. There is nobody except yourself; your whole life is your work—your creation. Once you grasp this, things start changing... transforming. You can play at changing your hell into heaven, or, if you are in love with misery, create as much as you wish."Osho
avatar
lunareclipse
Top Poster
Top Poster

Female
Posts : 646
Points : 3740
Thanks : 2916

Zodiac : Leo
Location : Florida

Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by kazoo on Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:14 am

This really is one of those subjects that really does take multiple readings for it all to sink in. At least for me. I am not sure I even participated on the the original thread, but rather just absorbed it all in. (or tried to)

When I first came across Bashar's explanation it made the most sense to me. Figuring out how to master it is another story however!

I saw the Berenstain story on yahoo, I think. I didn't really read those books when I was a kid. (I think I watched the cartoon, and my brother might have had some of them...but I didn't have a specific memory either way...) but I thought it was an interesting example of people INSISTING that they remembered the spelling a certain way and that the articles mention other instances of shared false memories.

There was a job I had a few years ago, before I was aware of LoA. I went out to lunch with a coworker and the coworker vented about one of the supervisors we had. I was surprised that she had such a negative experiences with the supervisor because that wasn't my experience with her at all. The supervisor had always been friendly to me. Even before I knew about LoA of course I knew that people could experience others differently and just wrote it off as they had personalities that didn't mesh.

All of the sudden my experiences with that supervisor started to match more what my coworker experienced. Was that one conversation enough to override all of the previous previous interactions I had with her? I'm not sure.


avatar
kazoo
Founder
Founder

Female
Posts : 280
Points : 1679
Thanks : 1333


Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by rodan on Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:31 am

Lunar posted: " But I have another question that I have been wondering- since most people are not aware of the LOA and we are- Did we then choose to have the experience of becoming aware of the LOA as a part of our journey because our main intention for this life was to regain awareness of our power and then create our dream world consciously from within this world?" Unquote

A great question. I like the way you think, Lunar!

For me, when I questioned what is this all about, what is the purpose of life? Is someone out there in control of me, or, am I in control, just how does this all work? Why am I here? Is there some purpose or assignment for me to fulfill, in this human  body?  Why am I?

From there, I went on a spiritual journey. Reading books on different religious beliefs, went to psychic fairs and attended psychic reading sessions, etc.

I've experienced weird psychic phenomena, such as precognition, such as like the characters in the movie " Final Destination " ( though, not as dramatic or life threatening, however very, very detailed ) Had a very major ufo experience.

That evolved into the time I had my first experience with LOA, or, I guess you could call it LOA. Reading Napoleon Hills books, and, applying the ten principles, actually meeting my " helpers ", the princes, he speaks of. There were three, for me.  ( not visually, I preferred them to remain invisible, on my request,  just speaking with them verbally, even over the phone, automatic hand writing,  and in my mind, although I think I did meet one that took on human form )

That brought practical use of psychic phenomena to use in the world of business and, my personal life.

Leaving that, I went back to living in the world like everyday people do, and, now, here I am. This time, I thought LOA was the target, but, am become aware it's more than that.

The journey? I think it was to find awareness. To become aware of who we really are. Discovering the unlimited power that does exist in each and every one of us, that becomes aware, and applying it for what it is we want out of life.

When we can visualize, imagine the world we truly want, it becomes reality.  We become what we believe.  Maybe it really is done according to our belief.  We will see where that leads.
avatar
rodan
Founder
Founder

Male
Posts : 145
Points : 749
Thanks : 538


Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by Night Eyes on Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:35 am

Lunar, i can assure you there is no reality, even in multi-universe theory... where i swoon over Justin Bieber tongue

i do like this idea of one conciousness and multiple experiences, i remember watching the Rupert Spira video where he said instead of 75 (or something) people and 1 room it was, one conciousness and 75 rooms

i can believe this, because we can all be in what we 'believe' to be the same situation... but come away with such different perspectives and memories of it, i find when i get together with my childhood friends, we'll start talking about the past and things we got up to.. and we will remember things similarly but from different perspectives.

i remember when i did Court room psychology, learning about how hard it is going off witness statements, because we can all see the same thing, but have totally different versions of what happened, and there's also false memory syndrome, which is fascinating in itself.

what about Self-fulfilling Prophecy? i think this was mentioned elsewhere on the forums. lets take Juvenile Delinquency, this is linked with self-fulfilling prophecy.. people take the belief that a teen is a bad kid, always in trouble, always in detention or being punished for bad behaviour.. wont ever become something other than criminal or bad.... and some of them grow up to be exactly that.. its a big societal construction... who manifests this... the people viewing the teen.. or the teen.... or everyone?

we're born into societies with massive belief systems, from a young age we're taught, this is right.. this is wrong.. you have to do this or do that ... you must conform and obey the rules.... did we choose to buy into this before we were born? or was this learnt afterwards.. if so then there must be some co-creation going on.. either that or the 'one' conciousness just happens to have different precipitations that run along similarly.. i dont know, i dont even know if i'm making sense anymore


anyways Lunar, another thought regarding the parent.. and the carer.... yes i'm glad not all a parents fears come true, my kids would have been kidnapped or fallen off rollercoasters on multiple occasions by now.. but yes the parent will always have that deep ingrained fear and want to protect the child, and feel like their safer with them than others... i do, i have always been very reluctant to leave my children with others.. but then i guess if someone else is looking after the child, and they do break their arm.. of course they probably didn't have that safety fear in the first place... and maybe to the carer.. kids do sometimes break their arms.. its not a life or death thing, so maybe their belief system was, as long as the child's not in mortal danger.. anything else isn't a big deal as they can sort it?.. of course you would prefer the child didn't break their arm... but kids fall off swings and out of tree's breaking ankles, arms a lot, sometimes its a right of passage in childhood.... i broke my leg twice as a toddler...it wasn't the end of the world.
avatar
Night Eyes
Top Poster
Top Poster

Female
Posts : 1406
Points : 5895
Thanks : 4363

Zodiac : Aquarius
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by Guest on Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:02 am

Night Eyes wrote:Lunar, i can assure you there is no reality, even in multi-universe theory... where i swoon over Justin Bieber tongue

Assuming this isn't some kind of irony and meant seriously -- lol I have to chime, I too would actually be more like Lotus, staying RIGHT away from Bieber, as far away as mortally possible. Wink I'm not sure I'd even be tempted to do any kind of handshake... (if you do actually really like Bieber, Night, I'm sorry! -- I do admit he has a cute face...but really truly not my type. Very Happy )

Otherwise, - my God, my head is imploding from all of this.

Here's a science journal article by David Deutsch (U Oxford), one of the main promoters of the multiverse theory today (Many Worlds Interpretation). It's actually a bit too sciency for my humanities brain, but...once I'm a little less busy I want to write up some more on Tegmark vs. Deutsch. Smiley

http://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0104033.pdf


Last edited by SelinaM on Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:15 am; edited 1 time in total

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by Night Eyes on Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:07 am

Selina... i most definitely do not like Mr Bieber, i'm sure a lot of young girls will be more than happy to take my place and swoon over him

taking my daughter to see One Direction was more than enough for this lady!

but hey Lunars' reality is obviously much different to ours... heading back on topic Razz

_________________
NightEyes Special 1
avatar
Night Eyes
Top Poster
Top Poster

Female
Posts : 1406
Points : 5895
Thanks : 4363

Zodiac : Aquarius
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by Guest on Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:15 pm

Lotus ♥ wrote:"seven billion worlds in one mind" instead of "seven billion minds in one world,"



I never thought about it like this before and wow, talk about MIND BLOWING.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by Lotus ♥ on Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:04 pm

*

Hi Lunar. Thanks for your post and kindly forgive my late answer.

I'm confused to why you would say you don't agree with Bashar, because this is exactly what he says. In fact even in Kazoos second Bashar video he says - it's not this OR that it's this AND that.
Bashar's second law of creation is The One is All and All is One. You are both One experiencing itself from many different perspectives and many consciousnesses being connected into one.
First of all, let this be clear, I'm a zealous fan of Bashar. Bashar is one of the most profound teachers/speakers I've ever listened to. I even "studied" his materials and listened to ALL (or almost all) his videos, Kazoo's included. Although less known than Abraham or the Hicks, I believe Bashar is be far deeper and more authentic.

However, his view or model, I'm afraid, still has a few mistakes or flaws in my humble opinion. Most of these mistakes are probably in his "expression" not in his "understanding." As for our topic here in particular, such teachings as "this AND that," or "The One is All and All is One," are obviously paradoxical, beyond the mind to grasp. They may only reveal his own understanding, or depth, but his audience and people don't really benefit from these teachings, remember or even understand them. What remains in our minds therefore are only his "easier" and non-paradoxical teachings. That's why you yourself, later in your post, said: "I do understand that the way Bashar means it is that we each literally live in our own different universes or realities." Where is "this AND that"? Where is "the paradox"?

The following video is an example of these "easier," more "accessible" or more "comprehensible" teachings. This is probably the main material from Bashar concerning our topic here, at least the most popular (although this is a new version), and possibly one of those videos Kazoo was looking for:


Here Bashar says: ... Just because it looks like someone else is in the room with you.. they're not.. they're in their own room.. maybe with their version of you... So the question is: what do you prefer to be going on in your room... because you're the only one in it.

What do we get from this and from the video overall? Exactly as you said, we each simply live all alone in our parallel, separate worlds (you're the only one in it), where everyone else is but a version of our creation. This is precisely what I disagree with and consider as one of Bashar's mistakes, or at least flaws in expression. Again obviously, there is no "this AND that" here. There is no "paradox" yet, as briefly admitted in other videos; Kazoo's for example.


He says initially there was All-that-is, or the one, but in order to have an awareness of itself, it had to split itself and create the polarity.
Yet another flaw or mistake although I don't personally recall where he said so. Do you/he mean that All-That-Is, or the One, who is essentially Infinite Awareness, didn't "have an awareness of itself"? It's like saying that the Sun was "in the dark," or needed to illuminate itself. The Sun is the very source of illumination, how could it possibly be in the dark? Similarly, it's Infinite Awareness; how could 'it' ever lack "an awareness of itself"?


So really it's like a huge Indra's net where each pearl has a consciousness of its own and a unique perspective, yet reflects each other pearl.
Yes, but what IS a pearl? Each pearl is the sum total of all reflections, of all pearls. This is the heart of the paradox: the individual pearl in itself is empty, transparent, nothing at all, yet at the same time it's the totality of everything. Therefore, back to Bashar, when he says, "you are the only one in the room." I'd rather say, there is no one at all in the room; at the same time I, the true I-Am, is indeed everyone, in every room.

In other words, Bashar gave much more weight to the "individual"—you are the only one in the room. I, and Indra's Net analogy, on the contrary, eliminate this weight altogether. We completely deny any role the individual—as an individual, or as a persona/ego—can play. That's why Bashar had to finally teach about the "letting go," in order for the so called "higher self" or "higher mind" to do its job. We, on the contrary, from the very beginning, identify with this higher self. We ARE the higher self. We are the HIGHEST Self that you can possibly imagine.

Bashar, therefore, at least in this video above and generally on this non-paradoxical, "easier" level of his teachings, used a clever "metaphor" to keep simple and accessible despite the paradox implied. His target, after all, was to help you shape your reality and fulfill your desires, and his model, in this regard, may be more helpful than mine (or Buddha's, or Sankara's, or even Neville's) here presented. However, if you don't want to manifest but rather to understand the structure of reality, this model (you're the only one in the room) is instead quite misleading.


Another way to interpret "you create your version of that person in your reality" might also be that a person might act a certain way with you, even if he never acted this way before (although I do understand that the way Bashar means it is that we each literally live in our own different universes or realities). For example, say a boy meets girl, they start dating, but the girl somehow brings out a side of him, that he never knew existed. Say the girl has chosen to experience the idea of devaluation and regaining of self worth. She has had a bad experience with abusive father and now attracts other similar relationships to her life. So due to her belief systems, she becomes clingy, victimizes herself and leads the guy into a relationship where he becomes abusive, even if he has never been that way before. He might then be disgusted and shocked with his own self, but had the girl had different beliefs and upbringing, she could've created a relationship with a different version of the same guy, that is not abusive.
Yes, you're correct. But this is only the rational, psychological or intellectual interpretation of the phenomenon. It's like describing "anger" as a negative "emotional energy" instead of a "demon." It's the same phenomenon (someone suddenly bursts out screaming, violent, almost mad and blind, and in their fit of anger may deeply hurt or harm someone, destroy a precious object, or even commit a murder—then later sincerely regret and truly wonder how they could possibly do this and how their mind was completely absent). Both names are therefore valid to describe the same one phenomenon; we only choose the name that fits best with our cultural themes, paradigms and worldviews.

However, as you said, we usually mean it literally. We literally manifest different people with our thoughts. We do alter and replace them. The illusion, and the real surprise, is not the change or transformation that happens to them. Rather, the illusion is that they (or we) are the same person they were yesterday, or even only a minute ago. They are not. We only "perpetuate" them through our memories of them, and we do exactly the same with ourselves. It's only your memory that makes you believe you're the same Lunar you were yesterday. And because this is what you believe, this is what you manifest, and you end up the same Lunar. This is precisely how the mind maintains and perpetuates your illusory "persona." Truth is, you are not Lunar, neither yesterday nor today. Very Happy

* * *

Just my opinion anyway, Lunar. I'll be back later to comment on the last idea(s) in your post. Thanks again for this very rich contribution and see you soon.

* * *
avatar
Lotus ♥
His/Her Highness
His/Her Highness

Male
Posts : 339
Points : 1852
Thanks : 1499


Back to top Go down

Re: The "others"

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 5 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum