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Procrastination and Laziness

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Procrastination and Laziness

Post by lunareclipse on Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:00 pm

Since you all know that this is my major pitfall, I might as well start a thread where we can share ideas on how to overcome laziness and get stuff done Very Happy

I found this article pretty interesting - http://www.businessinsider.com/how-successful-people-do-more-in-a-day-than-others-do-in-a-week-2015-6

Or maybe Freya can share her secrets of how she can ace a PhD while nursing broken hearts at the forums and accomplish other million tasks while still full of energy after 3 hours of sleep!  drunken

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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by Freya on Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:16 am

I guess the first step is to stop resisting the procrastination (like so -- )



...and instead just shifting focus...
There are different types of procrastination, some anxiety-based, etc., but the fact is negative reinforcement is rarely a good idea... A healthy amount of procrastination can be just that...healthy (the brain needs a break!). There's been a lot written about procrastination, but I like two complementary though perhaps seemingly conflicting quotes:

“I sit down to the piano regularly at nine-o'clock in the morning and Mesdames les Muses have [inspiration has] learned to be on time for that rendezvous.”
― Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky

and



Usually, inspiration will come if you train yourself to just start.






Looking forward to seeing this thread develop!

P.S. Oh and I have no secrets! Wink My time management is not as good as it could be, the fact that I spend so little time sleeping is just testimony to that. Smiley The only thing that seems to separate me from some of my colleagues whose academic lives are less shiny is that I am extremely passionate and slightly bonkers.



N.B. This whole post was written as procrastination from something else.

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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by kazoo on Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:38 pm

I have been thinking a lot about this topic because there are things I've been wanting to do but haven't worked up the energy and motivation to do them and it frustrates me that I'm not getting more done.

When I do feel like I am procrastinating and should be doing something other than something frivolous I tell myself that I work A LOT and I deserve some down time to relax and if I want to spend some time being lazy I feel like I've earned it. But then that line of thinking hardly helps me reach my goals, does it?

So right now I am trying not to beat myself up for not doing enough, because I do know that I do plenty. But at the same time I don't want to use that as an excuse. I still have things that I want to do but never manage to get around to doing them!

I think we've had this issue come up here before but I seems that we haven't really come up with a way to resolve it (or we haven't been open to really seeing the solution Smiley ) so I am also looking forward to what anyone else has found helpful.

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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by LittlemissSunshine on Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:21 am

I agree with freya that you should not force yourself into doing things. Joy is always the best way towards the next thing, so if it feels like effort, it probably is. Manifestations don't come from effort they come from a joyous vibration. That been said, I am a master procrastinator as well Very Happy Most of us get consumed by daily life and our goals fade somewhere into the background. But if you really want something there is always a way.

They best way is to simply get started, but sometimes the first step just seems too big. That's why it might feel like effort. So what you can do is devide that goal into a couple of smaller steps. Make a bord to get started. I have a bord full of post its in my living room with my goals on it. I check them regularly. Some of them are just on there. They are long term goals. Some of them come into my life effortlessly. Some of them I take action on. Keep track of your goals. Take small steps and write it down somewhere. It will keep focused. If you write your steps down you can see how much you've already done and works encouraging.

Hope this works for you kazoo Smiley
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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by Lotus ♥ on Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:58 am

In addition to these beautiful and very valuable words from Sunshine, I suggest that you look more closely at this:
…haven't worked up the energy and motivation to do them
If you "want" to do those things then what "motivation" do you need? If you really want to, what energy do you have to work up first? This doesn't sound to be the real reason Kazoo, especially given the rest of your post, about all those inner dialogs and compromises. I therefore think you probably need to investigate further. Let me give you an example:

I want to practice visualization to help manifest say a Ferrari. I really want to, yet I never just sit to practice. I'm always busy, or waiting for something to happen first, or willing to do it once I fully understand how LOA really works, etc. etc. At any given moment there is always a good (or not so good) reason why I'm not practicing RIGHT NOW. None of these reasons however is the real reason, but this is how I justify it for myself anyway. Days, months or perhaps even years pass by and I still don't visualize the car I want, or manifest even a Honda. So I finally pause and decide to look more closely. Upon investigation, I finally find out the real reason. Turns out I've never practiced, just sit and visualized that Ferrari, simply because deep inside I don't believe that visualization will really help bring me a Ferrari. However, because visualization or LOA is my only chance and hope to ever get a Ferrari, I don't like this belief—or rather lack of belief. I refuse it and I hate it. So it went unconscious, and I instead always had another fake reason why I hadn't started my visualization yet. Thus I kept the hope, consciously; at the same time fulfilled the deeper, real reason hidden in my unconscious.

I guess you got the point. This is what I'm suspecting to be the case here, more or less.
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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by President Roosevelt on Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:22 pm

LittlemissSunshine wrote:I agree with freya that you should not force yourself into doing things. Joy is always the best way towards the next thing, so if it feels like effort, it probably is. Manifestations don't come from effort they come from a joyous vibration.

I am a big procrastinator too. I always tend to work best at the last minute. Crisis mode seems to bring out my best qualities (provided I'm already fairly confident in my abilities). It's almost like a video game, there's that rush of fun in seeing if you can win before the deadline, like a race against against the defeatist voice inside. In A First Rate Madness, Nassir Ghaemi suggests that people with depression and manic depressive disorder bring out their best leadership traits in times of war and crisis, but they seem to fall apart in times of peace. Without that excitement of pressure and time-crisis, I'm almost always procrastinating. God only knows why.

If a joyous vibration is what gets us to move and do things in a better way, then maybe procrastination is very efficient because we can use the time procrastinating to reach into the joy vibration. I remember an Abraham-Hicks video where Abraham told a woman to get into the feelings of the "why" first instead of just charging on through her work. Whenever I couldn't focus on my work or felt beaten already, I'd just take a few minutes to focus on what motivates me, what makes me really want to do what I got to do, and then in that excited feeling I'll get to work. But I've also noticed that in a "happier vibration", procrastination (and the fear that moves with it) isn't a problem at all. Things just have a way of flowing.

So maybe taking "procrastination time" to feel better will work wonders. In Think and Grow Rich, Napoleon Hill wrote that the human mind can be "keyed up to high rates of vibration, known as enthusiasm, creative imagination, intense desire, etc." As a result of reaching higher vibrations, the mind is more receptive to intuition or Infinite Intelligence, everything just flows, mind action becomes physical action that gets stuff done. And the stimuli to "key up" to higher rates of vibration are love, music, friendship, sexual desire, auto-suggestion, etc. So maybe the work of procrastination is to get us to find what stimulates us to get moving again. Napoleon Hill also listed fear as one of the stimulants, but it can be just as destructive to a person's mind as it is powerful.
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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by Night Eyes on Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:40 pm

I'm one of those people that has to give myself a push, if i do that then i'm fine and i can get on with things and i enjoy it and feel a sense of satisfaction

Sometimes even doing fun things like going to see a friend or a night out, the build up is always.. oh i dont want to, its so much comfier to stay at home and watch a film than make the effort to go out, but once i'm out i love it and i'm glad i went

i think for me i've always been routined having younger kids, so i always knew what i was doing when i was doing it and how the day was going to go, now the kids are a bit older there's more time to just....... procrastinate lol, the routine's out of the window and i'm more laid back and..... it can wait Razz

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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by lunareclipse on Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:12 pm

Thank you I love all your replies, I'd like to reply each of you but I'm a little pinched for time today  Embarassed

I love your explanation Lotus, I think for my 'goals' it might be more that I see them as a tedious process before getting to desired results. Most of my goals are not LOAble goals, more like 'get off your lazy butt and just do it' goals and most of them are actually things I enjoy doing, but it seems like there is something less enjoyable in between. 
For example, say I have a goal of learning to use my camera better, so that i can take better, more artistic pictures. I have good ideas of what sort of pictures I'd like to do and I can be motivated about them, but the idea of reading that manual or watching the tutorials just seems so tedious. 

LMS, I did create a visual board  Very Happy Actually it's more like a goal-board that just reminds me what I want to accomplish. 
I have a procrastination list where i write down everything that needs to be done or what I want to do. Every day I check it and check off some smaller things like "reply to my aunt's email" or "Call bank".
But the bigger, more important goals usually just stagnate there with no progress, so I picked 9 big ones and made them into a visual board.
I then pretended that I am a PA or a manager and my client (who is really me) is hiring me to make sure all this would get done by a certain time. 
Then I imagined- if somebody hired me to get this done, then what plan of action would I take and how would I go about doing them. 

Like Anthony Robbins says- 'To accomplish your goals you need to turn your shoulds to musts.'
The unfortunate bit is that I still have no motivation to actually take any of my plans of action, because they are still shoulds
--------------------

I have noticed however that whenever I have more energy, I am automatically happy and motivated to do more. So perhaps instead of trying to figure out how to stop being lazy I need to figure out how to have more energy Very Happy

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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by The Simplifier on Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:48 pm

Lunar, pshaw, of course it's "LOAable". What pres wrote about focusing on the why is an effective way to naturally motivate you. It's not the kind of motivation that moves from should to must, but from should to done!

If I were in your place with the photography for example, I would spend a few mins focusing on what the actual goal is (taking beautiful photos), what the who is (maybe the feeling of satisfaction and also the appreciation of others towards the images?) And then I would sit in the feeling of looking through the photos I've taken and how awesome it feels to have caught those images/angles/moments and how there's no pressure anymore... bc it's done.

Procrastination doesn't feed off of inaction as much as it feeds off of the resistance of itself. You don't have to read the manuals and do the icky stuff you're been "should-ing" on. Pick up the camera sometimes and take some shots maybe with what you already know. So long as you're letting yourself procrastinate the icky parts (and not thinking about how much procrastination sucks), procrastination will dissolve and you'll feel compelled to do anything that's necessary and in a natural way.
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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by kazoo on Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:42 pm

Thanks for such wonderful replies everyone!  I relate to a what is being said here.

I definitely agree that there often is a disconnect between what we say we want and the realities of our actions which are not always in alignment with what we say we want.  

I think this is pretty common and I can think of some examples:

Someone says they want to get into shape.  They may even get a gym membership and stock up on healthy foods.  But then when it comes times to hit the gym and cook a healthy meal they find themselves planted on the sofa eating McDonalds and watching Netflix.  They tell themselves that they are too tired today and they had a bad day so they deserve the fast food and Netflix as a treat and they'll go to the gym and eat healthy tomorrow for sure.  Tomorrow comes and the pattern repeats.  

The desire to get into shape is real.  They may even imagine what their life would be like if they managed to get into shape but the disconnect or resistance is still there.  This is hardly an unusual situation.  Many people want to get into shape but can't seem to get there.

Imagine a college student who knows that getting a degree is part of what is required to reach their career goals.  Every time a new semester starts they promise that they are not going to procrastinate on their assignments, that they are going to stay on top of their school work and ace their classes.  However they find themselves hanging out with friends every night or vegging out online every time they sit down at the computer to do their work.  (I admit it, this was sooooo me!)

Again the desire to do well in school is real.  I know I actually really liked most of my classes and found the material interesting so that wasn't the issue.  But no matter how good my intentions I fell into this habit every semester.  (I did manage to do well because I really did enjoy the material and managed to pull it off...) I'm not one of those people who works best under pressure, I didn't like being all stressed out when everything was due all at once. I just put it off figuring I'd get to it later, and when later came I had another reason to keep putting it off until I was left staying up all night writing whenever a paper was due.  I was hardly alone in that, many of my classmates did the same thing.

So I guess the issue is getting over the disconnect and align what you want with your actions.  I never found the advice to "just do it" to be all that helpful because as people are sharing here it's not that easy.
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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by President Roosevelt on Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:40 pm

I'm procrastinating again  Cool

lunareclipse wrote:

I then pretended that I am a PA or a manager and my client (who is really me) is hiring me to make sure all this would get done by a certain time. 
Then I imagined- if somebody hired me to get this done, then what plan of action would I take and how would I go about doing them. 

Lunar, this reminds me of when I pretended to have my own advisory firm back in college and all of my finance and economics homework was research projects for clients. I started to forget about my imaginary firm and instead I started thinking of myself as a Federal Reserve economist/analyst involved in research and policy recommendations. That made it more exciting to get through all of the homework since it felt like I was making up all those charts and essays not to pass but to actually do work that makes an impact.

lunareclipse wrote:
Like Anthony Robbins says- 'To accomplish your goals you need to turn your shoulds to musts.'
The unfortunate bit is that I still have no motivation to actually take any of my plans of action, because they are still shoulds

Interesting idea. I tend to stay from "shoulds" because I've "should" myself to death over the years with regrets so much that for my own sanity, my mind has rebelled. Right now, I feel like "should" is the ego speaking to me with all of its doubt and fear. Now, I feel like there is no "should", how can there be? "Should" ties us to the past (depression) and the future (anxiety), but only the now determines what the past and future is. Now, there is no "should", there is only being. I can only be, and in that calculus of the moment, my being changes on feeling, so I'll just do whatever action makes me feel better now. I feel when we connect to the Divine Energy (or whatever we call it), we see that each and every one of us deserves to feel better, the great Oneness of Everything. So "shoulds" don't matter anymore because we realize we deserve to feel good about who we are and the action that we take is what gets us there for the enjoyment of that alone, not to please the "shoulds" that ego enforces. Ok, maybe I'm high on dark chocolate right now or it's just the luxury of being young, single, and having no kids that makes this sound weird lol (lucky me  Cool ). It reminds me of my favorite motivational video, which always reminds me that actions are worth taking (and easier to take) if done from a place of meaning:



lunareclipse wrote:
I have noticed however that whenever I have more energy, I am automatically happy and motivated to do more. So perhaps instead of trying to figure out how to stop being lazy I need to figure out how to have more energy Very Happy

Happens to me all the time. After taking some down time to relax and do the stuff I really enjoy or am passionate about, all of my energy and confidence comes back, and then taking action on boring or hard stuff is easier, especially since I'm moving into it with a different state of mind/feeling now. So I think balance is very important. Maybe that's also why it's best to get things done after waking up...less resistance after sleeping.

I really like The Simplifier's advice about photography. It reminds me of when I would procrastinate with my creative writing. On one hand, I love writing and I really want to write this story. On the other hand, I just keep stumbling over the words. I keep thinking that it has to be good enough to make money, be good enough like Stephen King or Earnest Hemingway, or that it's not good enough and readers and critics will hate it. Plus, I always have problems writing dialogue. So I just relax, remind myself that I love to write and if I write some of my story now it will have been a very good day. I remind myself that I like writing because it is fun, so first I relax my mind with music, then free write just whatever feels fun now like an action scene as my mind is filled with that feeling of fun. And then ideas come and flow from that, so the dialogue works itself out.

kazoo wrote:
The desire to get into shape is real.  They may even imagine what their life would be like if they managed to get into shape but the disconnect or resistance is still there.  This is hardly an unusual situation.  Many people want to get into shape but can't seem to get there......

.....So I guess the issue is getting over the disconnect and align what you want with your actions.  I never found the advice to "just do it" to be all that helpful because as people are sharing here it's not that easy.

Every time I exercise to lose weight, I'm always looking at my body each day and feeling frustrated because it's the same, so much effort, no results. I keep going, exercising, enjoying the feeling in my body after a good workout, but still disappointed that results don't come sooner. Then the weekend comes and I'm relaxing, having fun,eating like a dog...and it seems then that I'm losing weight....once I've stopped noticing lack of results and instead focused on what feels good. As for the motivation to exercise, I do it because it feels good for my body, mind, and spirit and I deserve to feel that way. Reminding myself of that is what keeps me going. Do it long enough, it becomes a habit. Now I'm just trying to make the habit stick to exercise earlier in the morning.
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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by kazoo on Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:07 am

I really like the little trick of pretending you are your own PA. I am gonna have to give that a try!

I think there also is the issue of instant gratification vs delayed reward. I definitely agree with PR that it's easy to get discouraged when we don't see immediate rewards for our efforts.

When it comes to longer term goals like losing weight, or learning to play a new musical instrument well or getting a college degree the ultimate reward may be something that seem so far off in the distance anyway that it doesn't matter so much if you put it off another day when there is something else like eating junk or playing video games or whatever that feels more rewarding in the moment. I think if we could find a way to make those incremental steps toward the ultimate goal just as rewarding as the stuff we use as a distraction we wouldn't procrastinate as much.

I know I have a few small tasks that I have been putting off for no real reason, things that would take like two minutes like making an appointment for the eye doctor and I just never get around to it. That kind of stuff I know I do have to just do it. I know I've spent more time thinking about it being something I have to than it would take to actually do.
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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by Freya on Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:01 pm

Thank you all for the discussion. Very illuminating. Smiley

I just wanted to make a quick note.

Procrastination is usually delaying starting -- once you've started, it's almost always easy. (Even if the task is difficult Razz ) The delay comes down to a number of psychological reasons, it could be fear of not being good enough, or any kind of subconscious (or conscious) resistance. There's a lot of work been done on anxiety procrastination, etc.

But subconscious/conscious fears/problems.......all that is ultimately not that important. The point is procrastination is (I'd argue) always rooted in the ego-mind. It could be said that all of us - every single human being that lives or ever has lived - work best when "inspired", "in the zone", etc... which is the direct opposite of ego-mind: it's when we're in touch with something much deeper, beyond any individual self. Plato and Renaissance thinkers loved the idea of furor poeticus -- all through the Renaissance they had this idea of divine inspiration, also found in other cultures and time periods... It's no mistake when artists or poets or musicians speak of "tapping" some "source"...  perhaps it is the world-mind, perhaps it is something different (more materialistic), but the point is that surely we work best when we transcend the ego. Some writers are known to enjoy writing when tired, or drunk ("write drunk, edit sober" - Hemingway) precisely because it helps to unblock the mental noise found on the level of the ego-self.

This is why Tim Gallwey's Inner Game of Tennis teaches tennis players to access their intuitive self (higher self?), called "Self 2", instead of being stuck in the ego self, dubbed "Self 1", which focuses on mistakes, looking good, fear - of what others will think, etc.

I think the concept of getting beyond ego is very relevant to procrastination; most people know about the work they do "in the zone" and how it's usually much better than any normal work. But the first step of getting into that zone is of course to start Razz - but sometimes in order to start and tune into the best, most creative energy to complete tasks, it's great to get out of your ego-mind --- perhaps by techniques such as pretending to be a character or someone you admire, or even by mindfulness. I'm not sure on this, but right now I'm feeling quite inspired so I thought I'd drop these thoughts here.......someone else can make sense of them Razz Razz

Maybe Lunar could write and illustrate a book called
Zen and the Art of Beginning and Finishing Work Beautifully
next. Wink

What do we think? Any tips on transcending ego? Because I know that this (fears/worries what others will think, some really deep fears of the future, other general anxieties about life etc./self-image/etc.) is what trips me up and causes me to procrastinate. I think a lot of us may struggle with social conditioning that drills in (sub)conscious ideas that work should involve struggle, pain, duty, annoyance, and so on, and these things block the genuine joy of work - the kind of joy we all had as children doing something (mixing cookie dough together! oh! oh! oh!) for the first time.

My whole point here is that procrastination=self-consciousness of some kind, the self tripping up our ability and/or willingness to just do it. Lose the self and self-consciousness becomes just consciousness - much more powerful. Oneness with everything...

There is a quote somewhere about how "He cannot work who is not at one with his work", or something along those lines, but I can't find it just now, no matter how inspired I am Razz -- but I am in a hurry, anyway!

I'll close with a bit of Tao Te Ching --

By letting go, it all gets done. Wink

I hope some of my scribbles made sense.
I love you

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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by Freya on Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:51 pm

I knew it was an Italian, though I had a vague notion of Vasari or Michelangelo Facepalm

"Who paints a figure, if he cannot be it, cannot draw it." - Dante


So, too, might we say,

"Who washes a dish, if she cannot be it, cannot wash it."


Well -- it is possible to wash a dish while thinking about something else, but that is not the art! Wink

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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by Freya on Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:14 pm

Okay, so I'd somehow missed Pressie's most recent post and he said something about ego-mind/divine energy already. Sorry for any repeats!

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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by The Simplifier on Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:36 pm

"Write drunk, edit sober" - Hemingway

HAH!
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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by lunareclipse on Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:54 am

Great video Pressie (except I don't like boxing).
If you like those type of videos, you should watch the bodybuilding motivational videos. My husband is into bodybuilding big time and he always watches those, sometimes they are really good. They always say things like "The man that controls his mind will shape his own destiny" (<--That was Kai Greene in some video that I don't remember)


Maybe Lunar could write and illustrate a book called
Zen and the Art of Beginning and Finishing Work Beautifully
next
Haha, you mean as the second part to  my international bestseller "Fuck it and grow rich"? Then it would have to be something like "Fuck it, just get shit done" tongue
But oh boy, you have no idea Very Happy Once you have a 24/7 terror of small kids, there is no zen in dishes or anything really Laughing


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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by Lotus ♥ on Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:41 pm

lunareclipse wrote:
For example, say I have a goal of learning to use my camera better, so that i can take better, more artistic pictures. I have good ideas of what sort of pictures I'd like to do and I can be motivated about them, but the idea of reading that manual or watching the tutorials just seems so tedious.

I'm not sure but I have a theory about your so-called laziness, Lunar, and this example above only supports my theory. The bottom line is, contrary to the common belief you've created all over the world and announced in every forum, Very Happy you're really not lazy. It's only your desire, the fuel essential for every action, not strong enough to justify, initiate and maintain the effort involved. And your desire is weak only when it's "personal." But when it's about your family, household or work, or what you deem "duties" in general, you're not lazy at all. On the contrary, you're a hard worker and often very dedicated. Laziness, therefore, is not an intrinsic characteristic in your personality, generally manifest in your life and, to one degree or another, consistently present.

The weakness of your personal desires, on the other hand, can be attributed to several factors. In my opinion, or theory about you in particular, this weakness is due to the gap between your childhood in a village in Europe and your current life and residence in a city or even a small town in US. Generally in the village, the culture is more socially-oriented, more collective and cooperative, with almost no emphasis on individualism. In the city, especially an American city, in contrast, the individual comes first; a higher sense of individualism, self-independence and self-reliance is not only emphasized but also promoted and often appreciated. Not that the "individual" is less valued in the village; rather, the individual is not viewed as such in the first place. A newly born boy in the village, for example, is subconsciously celebrated not because he's a future "man," apart from the whole, but a future "husband" and "father;" that is, a seed for a new collective and productive unit, adding up and merging into the larger whole. What people in the village see and recognize as a "forest," in one word, the same we see and recognize in the city as "trees."


So raised in a village, you've been psychologically and emotionally engineered to fit in this society, harmonize with this norm, represent this culture, contentedly adopt this lifestyle and even reproduce it. You've not been "set" or "tuned" to become a "separate person," but part of a larger unit of many people connecting together, living together and working together. Your subconscious mind has been designed to "allocate" little energy, resources and even attention to what is "personal" in general. The "distribution" of your desires and emotions, in other words, subconsciously follows a different model or schema, the village schema, which both reflects and reinforces the village's culture, values, interests, priorities, etc.

Once in the city, where the norm is almost the opposite, the society is deeply fragmented, and most relationships are rather competitive than cooperative, a cultural dissonance is instantly created. You feel incompatible, to one degree or another, even if in a small town with low resources. It's not how rich this community is, or how big, or even how civilized. It's rather the culture itself, saturated with individualistic values, attitudes and transactions. The collective mind of the city. The very thoughts and ideas floating in the air, everywhere, even on the web.


Adapting, you gradually grow more individualistic, develop your "personal profile" and create more and more personal wants, goals and dreams. However, because in your first and formative years back in the village you didn't learn to tune in to such personal interests, let alone "ensoul" them with the energy or power of desire, you still can't do it today. Your desire, as a driving or propelling emotion, is always weak, so long as the target is personal. This is simply the "village schema" still active in your unconscious and still efficiently allocating your emotions and desires in its own way.

That's why you're finally such a hard worker though. You're very dedicated, and very tolerant. Your jobs get done, your house is definitely clean, your food is often ready on time, and your children are in very good hands. Only when it's about you personally it gets lazy and sleepy. Very Happy Of course you do get lazy sometimes, too lazy to do even your job or duties, but just like everyone else does; after all we're not machines. Your laziness however manifests sharply only when it's a personal desire, be it "more wealth" or "better, more artistic pictures." Although the "goal" is clear and even the "pleasure" expected is great, the "will" or "desire" is weak. You don't have or naturally generate the emotional "fuel" it takes to overcome the obstacle involved, such as the tedious reading of a manual, which someone else will probably find minor or trivial if an obstacle at all. Charged with desire, they won't even call it tedious in the first place.


All in all, you're not really lazy, Lunar. So please stop "affirming" that to your mind. Very Happy Your laziness is only a "misinterpretation," in my opinion, and you're only misreading yourself. This again, however, is only a theory, just a thought—and there are several others in psychology that explain such lack of desire, needless to say. Besides, there are always exceptions, of course. Some in the village may have very individualistic views and values, and so do their children and grandchildren therefore, while some in the city may have the villager's heart, always think and move as part of a whole and spontaneously care more about the welfare of their community, neighborhood or at least family than they do about their own self.
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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by Night Eyes on Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:20 pm

Blinking heck Lotus, there was me thinking you were a Guru on all things Spiritual and illusory and then you go and knock one out of the park for Psychology, the Mind and its internal framework... do you live in a Library? Razz I love you

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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by President Roosevelt on Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:40 pm

I remember in MoreToCome's ebook, What Am I Here To Do?, he was procrastinating on the job search and God said to him that he's not lazy, he's just refusing to do what doesn't excite him anymore. God said that everyone has a passion, and by exploring our repressed feelings, following our feelings, and meditating on which feelings flow from the ego or the Higher Self's joy and fulfillment, we can better trust our own feelings and know what our passion is.

At first, this reminded me of Bashar's following the path of highest excitement that kazoo showed me. The more I listen to that, the more it reminds me of being a kid again. As a kid, apart from set hours in school and a few boring chores, I had so much free time and just did what excited me. My creativity was more "productive" - paintings and drawings, short stories and fanfiction, sprawling Lego constructions of the Chicago skylines. I once even built a Lego bank to deposit slices of Kraft cheese (my first interest in economics of banking policy Razz PLOA). As I got older, school became the main priority, as did worries about money, security, family, and status. The free creativity of being a child ended with judgement that none of these things are practical, yet without them life just feels incomplete. So maybe we all have an inner child inside of us waiting to be acknowledged and accepted and encouraged to be creative. The big question is will we love that part of ourselves like we will a real child? Even I find that hard to do at times but maybe a focus on non-judgement of the self (or complete acceptance, as MTC talked about) is part of the answer. Anyway, just random thoughts.
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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by The Simplifier on Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:39 am

Interesting theory, Lotus. I wonder what lunar will think about it. I certainly see that she's not lazy, and how we can all be lazy when it comes to our personal things, especially if we weren't raised to be individualistic in the sense of "pushing ourselves ahead".

Pres, moretocome's way of understanding "laziness" is certainly real. It's often not that we don't do things bc we're lazy. It's that the passion isn't there for that thing, and it's sort of like judging a fish by its ability to climb a tree. If the desire is not in him, then why judge the fish by its capability or willingness to do a certain thing....

Like you said, it goes in line with Bashar's higest excitement teaching. I'm going with my highest excitment with something at the moment, and it's scary, but it doesnt make me feel lazy like so many other options make me feel. It's so much to do with choosing what's exciting to us, and knowing it's not any less important to do something that is for us personally or individually than it is to do something for the village as a whole.
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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by lunareclipse on Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:39 am

Thank you Simplifier, Pressie and especially Lotus for taking so much time to explain everything so clearly and for all your kind words I love you

I believe of course, that you are right. I have thought that myself before that I never have problems doing chores or work an actual job and even when I look at my procrastination list, it's the things I do for others, or more tedious tasks, such as calling banks, that get done fast and the things I am actually supposed to enjoy doing, just sit there with no input whatsoever. Hence my plan to pretend I am doing the goals for somebody else, although it hasn't worked well cause I clearly haven't fooled myself into thinking I'm not me  Razz

I think you are correct about my upbringing and village influence in so many ways, maybe not even the way you might expect it. For example, I was part of the community in the village, but it wasn't like an African village where people sit around the fire and children are everyone's children. We never really mingled with other villagers or work together, nor was I ever babysat by anyone but my own family. It was more like a small collection of independent farms hehe.

But it was a small community within my family, meaning ever since I can remember we were included in all the farm work and chores, so there wasn't really much time for playing. We didn't have any running water for example, so every day we had to carry bucket after bucket of water from the well for drinking water for us, for animals, dishwashing, laundry, bathing... The list of chores was never ending, from growing our own food and making all the breads, jams, juices, milking the cows and preparing the hay for the winter to shoveling dung and walking sheep to the pasture. Regardless  of the workload our house was always spotless and the underwear neatly ironed and folded. Even if we did have time, it was normally used for studying, so we didn't really have individual desires such as "Hey let's go to Disneyland" or even "Hey let's go to the beach". Even for Christmas we got what we needed rather than what we wanted.

I think that because I grew up always doing something, I feel lazy now that I seem to be doing less, even if everything that needs to be done is done.

Also, astrologically speaking, I have 5 planets, aka stellium in my 6th house- the house of work and career. One would think that it would make my whole life about career but its significance is rather opposite, it means too much chaotic energy, where I can not truly choose or stick with one thing and no matter how much I work, I will still not be satisfied.

The question is now- how do I increase the desire, to move past the point of frustration?

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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by Lotus ♥ on Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:03 am

Night: lol. You have no idea. Very Happy no no not really. I was just lucky and had the opportunity and time to study several issues, enough to give many people this impression you just expressed. lol.. Interestingly, Psychology was my very first love story (as a young boy fervently wishing to understand myself) and Spirituality is my very last (to finally find out in my late youth that I can never understand myself). Very Happy But these two, psychology and spirituality, are at least connected, with what-the-heck-the-mind-is in common, for example. Smiley Anyway I'm no guru in either, Nighty, of course.


Armine: Exactly, my friend; very well said. And spiritually speaking this is even better (that we weren't raised to be individualistic in that sense). But anyway since "we can all be lazy," let's give it another name then. Why call ourselves lazy? I believe that was my main message in that post to Lunar. Thanks, both of you, for your reading and kind comments.


President: Your "just random thoughts" are as beautiful as the ones not so random. Smiley Always glad to hear from you my friend; keep up.

(By the way I suspect that both Moretocome and Rodan no longer share for some sad reason, given the exact time they stopped writing. As for Moretocome, as far as I remember that was directly after his thread on what's his name (our friend from Eden). So perhaps he didn't like how this issue or even he personally was dealt with? Just a thought, in case anyone here is interested. Both remain our best friends anyway; wishing them wherever they are all the best.)


Lunar: I'm glad that resonated with you, my friend. As I said that was only a theory. It's not even important; I only sent it at last because I hope that you'll finally give up this false belief about yourself and realize that you're fine just as you are. Because, even if my village-vs.-city explanation is incorrect or inaccurate, it's still a matter of desire or willpower occasionally lacking for whatever reason, not "laziness" as a consistent trait of character. Laziness usually comes with "dullness" and other characteristics that I really don't see in you. You're rather sharp and alert, generally speaking, with a sense of humor that usually indicates a very strong mind. So how come you're lazy?

As I once wrote to you, Paul Valéry said in a beautiful quote, "The city has a face; the village, a soul." It is this soul of the village and spirit of the farm that I meant in my post, and always found and loved in your stories and memories, regardless of how this village really looks like.

  
Also, astrologically speaking, I have 5 planets, aka stellium in my 6th house- the house of work and career. One would think that it would make my whole life about career but its significance is rather opposite, it means too much chaotic energy, where I can not truly choose or stick with one thing and no matter how much I work, I will still not be satisfied.

Smiley I'm afraid this is not how you should read your birth chart or even astrology in general, Lunar. Astrology is an art not just a science. What we have in someone's chart is a "vision" not a set of "data." It's a composition of "music" not an "account" of events. This vision, this music, is even alive not dead, with very dynamic relationships constantly unfolding between all those planets and stars, all those lords and gods, angels and demons, in everyone's heaven. It's not a story set in stone; rather, a life in progress in heaven as on earth. You don't actually "read" the chart; you rather "connect" with it, merge into it, feel it. Only then can this "vision" illuminate you and you it. Only then will you be guided not by your mind but by your "intuition," have a "glimpse" of the underlying meaning of all those astral dances, and finally come out with your "revelation." Even then your revelation, like all ancient prophecies, will be ambiguous and mysterious; both revealing and concealing, itself equivocal, intuitive, dynamic and alive just like the vision that inspired it.

If you looked at, say, Bill Gates' chart as you look today at yours, you'd find almost nothing indicating that this baby would be someday the richest man in the world—for several years in a row. Especially those "Houses" relating to Money were insignificant. It's only AFTER he became the richest that we can read his chart as confidently and unequivocally as you do yours today and even answer why it turned out this way. Do you know why this guy is so wealthy? It's not his intelligence, or knowledge. It's not his early passion for computers either. It's not even his Microsoft, or Windows. This guy is the world's richest man only because he is the world's biggest employer. Period. It has nothing to do with any talent or project or product of his. Back to his chart, now we can finally see this, notice those subtle yet active relations between People and Work and Money in this chart. But it'd take a "prophet" to see this back when he was still a baby.

In other words, although astrology is a sound and exact science, there is much more to it than "Five planets in one House means such-and-such." Saturn, for example, is the most dreadful "opposition" in heaven. Saturn can just ruin one's life, break every dream, and those under Saturn are really, really unlucky. But Saturn, by virtue of this same power of opposition, is also a "Teacher." So why take or "read" this mighty lord as an awful Opponent and not as a great Teacher? What reasons do we really have, other than him just being Saturn that everyone fears?

On the contrary, it's only when (and only because) we "define" him a certain way that he manifests his powers accordingly in this certain way. Although your destiny can be traced in the stars, all the way down to what kind of disease you may have, it's still you who "pin down" this destiny, "solidify" it and "activate" it. You are Consciousness itself, ma'am. You don't only interpret or misinterpret the planets; you rather know them all into being. You're holding them all in the space and moving them all in their orbits—LITERALLY. Please note, these are all cosmic energies and vibrations. "Lord Saturn" and "Lord Jupiter" are only "personifications" of these energies, indicated by certain planets in the solar system, just like Brahma or Jesus or The Son is only a "personification" of the Divine Mind. The only Intelligence in existence is YOU, and from you all else come and show their own. The ONLY "sentient" being that ever existed is YOU, you ALONE without a second, and because of you all sentient beings, from the highest gods to the lowest animals, ALL on earth as in heaven, seem to be so.


Chaotic energy? What is this? I can not truly choose or stick with one thing… Who is this you're talking about here? To whom is this "I" exactly referring? …and no matter how much I work, I will still not be satisfied. Are you not satisfied? Who just decided so? Is this not your mind deciding on your behalf—that you'll not be satisfied no matter how much you work? Is this not ALL but a "story," including even the 5-planet proof in your chart? Is this not but a "reading," a "meaning," an "interpretation" that your mind gave to "reality," and that thus exists ONLY in your mind and NEVER truly in reality? Wake up, my friend. Just open your eyes. (And then close them again if you want to. Very Happy But at least this time you'd have consciously chosen what illusions you're going to entertain, what game you're going to play, and needless to say what new meanings you're going to discover in your birth chart). Very Happy

* * *

Well, that came longer than I ever expected. I'm not sure, on the other hand, how I may comment on the "desire" question. But let's at least, in a new post, briefly clear up this one most persistent confusion about desire and LOA. Please read on.

...................
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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by Lotus ♥ on Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:12 am

……………………

In brief, there are two schools concerning desire, my friend, not only one—and therefore there are two schools concerning "action." In one school, Napoleon Hill's for example, the desire must be strong, even "BURNING." He even used to write it in his classic Think and Grow Rich like this, in capital letters, just to emphasize it. And he did this not once but several times throughout the book, not to mention his dedicating a whole chapter to "Desire." In the other school, however, we're rather supposed and clearly told to "Let Go." What confused the hell out of everyone, therefore, was the simple fact that we cannot both maintain a "burning desire" and "let go" at the same time. How the heck can anyone possibly do that? Very Happy These two teachings are obviously and sharply contradicting. But these in fact are two different schools or systems not one; each based on a different premise, and both are valid.

So even if the "desire" is weak, and consequently the "action" is weak, it's okay; this is really no problem at least to one school (in which you're not even the "doer" of your actions anyway, nor is there even "causality" in the first place; that is, no relation between the cause and the effect and therefore ALL is "synchronicity.") Although this latter school usually requires a higher degree of holistic or spiritual awareness, I definitely find you, Lunar, and most people here, quite fit for it. So no worry; you do manifest your reality anyway. Just don't call yourself "lazy." Very Happy


(Of the other school, our dear "Adi" here is an excellent example, because this school or system, besides being less spiritual or esoteric, requires both desire AND action—hence Napoleon Hill also wrote about the necessity of taking action. Taking action, at least "inspired" action, is anyway recommended (so long as we're not yet "masters" in the "Letting Go" school—constantly Self-aware, sort of awake or at least spiritually-oriented). But action is a "must" in the "Burning Desire" school because this desire, being burning or very strong, literally generates huge amounts of "energy." Action therefore is required to drive and channel this energy, or else it will harm or even kill you—thus shut down this "generator" and stop the "excess" of energy. Anyway this is the reason Adi's ideas may sound different or don't resonate with some here or there. He's just another school. And an authentic school, definitely.)
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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

Post by posay on Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:21 am

Great thread luney and I'm with you kazoo on the bit about the desire to do well at school.  It still doesn't make sense to me despite reading most of the thread because I have a real desire and passion to do well this term but here I am 7 weeks in already and I've hardly even looked over the stuff I've done in classes those 7 weeks so I'm already falling behind massively but it's what I always do.  It's not like my course doesn't excite me either, I absolutely love it and I know it's the career I want.  

I guess it's where the procrastination kicks in because I tell myself "It's ok I'll do it tomorrow/next week/next month" but that keeps happening and before I know it it's the day before an assignment or the week before exams and I know nothing, and when that time comes I'll tell myself "Oh crap, well I'll wing it" and it has never landed me with a fail but I've definitely found myself being quite upset because my marks weren't as high as I hoped.  I know I'm capable of getting better marks but I guess for this one I just have to accept that I am too damn lazy LOL Razz Razz because I am, and it applies to other areas of my life too with things that I really do want but I just can't be bothered making effort with. Now to get out of the habit... Twisted Evil
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Re: Procrastination and Laziness

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