Power of Belief - Comments

Lotus quote from " attachement & letting go " thread.

" ......Besides, personally I'm NOT against God or the belief in God in the most traditional way. This belief can be helpful to some point, and with some people. At least, this belief is much better and healthier and even more promising and fruitful than believing in one's own separate self, in this illusory "I" or persona or ego, as God. To spend my life in genuine love and devotion to the Lord, be he Jesus or Krishna or whoever, is definitely so much better than thinking for one day that I, this flesh and blood, am God. This is sadly the mistake that some make when they first learn about this stuff. "( end quote)

Where I am at on my journey, is the belief that " God " is the infinite consciousness, intelligence, awareness within us.  The I AM.

It is true when someone hears the name of God, they immediately think of the God of most common religions.

Jesus ( I know little about the following,... Krishna, Buddha, Gandhi, Sai Baba, Muhammad, there are more) is a good example of an extra ordinary teacher, prophet,  " God/man " . From what was written about him, he was no ordinary man.  From scripture, he claimed to be God.  From his teachings, if you believe on him, what he represents, what he teaches, you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

Could that " truth " the " good news ",  be that God is within us?  Is the kingdom of God within us, as Jesus said?

He did tell his disciples they could perform the same miracles as he did, if they only believed.

Jesus said he was the " I AM " .  He realized infinite consciousness, awareness and his message to us was to " follow him ".  Do as he does, believe as he does. He was teaching us the power of I AM.

Just dropping by, God knows what I'm up to, so let me finally end this short visit here, in reply to our duke, Sir Rodan, a beautiful man I sincerely admire and appreciate. So this is mainly to thank you, Rodan, for your lovely presence and continuous contribution. Also to apologize for any comments or replies that I might have missed due to the current crises in my life especially of time.

Jesus said he was the "I AM" .  He realized infinite consciousness, awareness and his message to us was to " follow him ".  Do as he does, believe as he does. He was teaching us the power of I AM.

In my opinion, this is just "following him," only "the following," the last "condition" in the "contract" with Jesus. If we chose Jesus, then three conditions have to be met. In Luke for example:

Then he said to them: "Whoever wants to be my disciple must (1) deny themselves and (2) take up their cross daily and (3) follow me.

In Mark, still only for example:
Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

He then, explaining, rather gave us that famous paradox:
For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it.


Jesus was simply a man with a "message." People who have a message for humanity as a whole usually don't commit philosophy. They care for their message to reach its target—the poor, the weak, the sad, the sick—and they thus keep as simple, clear and direct as possible. Jesus therefore didn't talk about "Infinite Consciousness" or "the illusory nature of reality" or "the ego." He just said, "Deny yourself." Denying oneself, however, is the same as dropping the veil of the ego. Taking up one's cross daily is the same every Yogi does in order to bring their mind under control. Following him—believing as he did, thinking as he did and acting as he did—is exactly the same "path" the Buddha taught in order to reach truth and attain "awakening" or "enlightenment"—which is simply the "Kingdom of God" in Christian terminology.

That's why it sounded like a paradox in the end: you have to lose your life in order to save it. You have to die in order to live. You have to be crucified in order to be liberated. In fact, "salvation" in Christianity depends entirely on this "loss" of our life for him, God. But truth is, what we really lose, what we really crucify, are only our "illusions." What we think of as our "self" or our "life" is but an utter illusion. "Following" Jesus, therefore, had to go hand in hand with this "denial" of the illusory self.

Finally based on all above, what Jesus wanted was not exactly the same Paul, and the Church later, wanted—although the different is very subtle. The latter wanted "good Christians" who may enter the Kingdom of God. The former wanted "God," in everyone, to be home.

Just my opinion anyway and my symbolic sharing, in reply to yet another rich and pregnant post of yours, Sir. Thanks again Rodan and have a great day. ♥

Lotus i do hope you're ok with whatevers going on thats keeping you busy, i hope you're finding time to rest and relax with whatever it is you're doing, and i send you lots of love and good wishes, please take care of yourself x x

That was very kind of you Night, thank you so much. Yes I definitely need that love and those beautiful wishes you just sent, so I'm deeply grateful. Thank you. Nothing serious though; just a couple of miracles and everything will be ok.

(Besides, I'm a winter man; so for me particularly these days are the year's worst ever regardless of anything else).

Also thanks for your earlier post. I rather wish I could know more and send more; you definitely deserve a thousand-fold more than all that I wrote. So you too take care my friend and have a bright day.

my love is always with you and all the other forum members, you all inspire me and lift me up, so i am truly grateful

in the words of the Beatles ... 'Love is all you Need' and this forum eminates it, and its wonderful how everyone is just there for each other

maybe you should come to Wales Lotus.. considering its August it may aswell be late September!

have a happy dance

Lotus, come to Chicago. We're always freezing our nuts off over here (well, August is kind of hot right now)



Classic Chicago joke: Two Northside Chicago guys from Wrigleyville die and go to Heaven. Of course, Heaven is filled with prudes and there's no beer or deep-dish pizza up there. So my friends went to Hell and loved it! It's a complete paradise. They love it down there, watching the Cubs play. The Devil walks by and wonders why they are so happy. "We're from Chicago," they say. "It's always cold up there so we're just grateful we're finally someplace warm." The Devil is a little stiffed, so he raises the temperature as high as it will go. And my friends are having a cookout, blasting the Cubs game on TV at the highest volume, lounging around in shorts and sunglasses. "Thanks man, we never get weather like this in Chicago," they say. The Devil is very angry now. Well, since they love the warm weather so much, he decides to bring it all the way down to the freezing cold. He finds my friends in their big parkas and snow boots, shivering, yet jumping up and down and high-fiving each other in joy. "What the hell? I just don't get it..." the Devil says with a sad face. And my friends tell him, "Dude, it's a cold day in Hell. That means the Cubs won the world series!"

Moral of the story: us Chicago boys know how how to have fun, even in Hell...plus this joke helps me flirt with suburban girls

Did somebody mention cubs?!

Hope all is ok, Lotus! Sending you some love at the moment, power through and create those miracles

It's absolutely miserable weather here in Ireland, always the same in August

Lotus quoted : " That's why it sounded like a paradox in the end: you have to lose your life in order to save it. You have to die in order to live. You have to be crucified in order to be liberated."  end quote

Can we even know the true message Jesus brought,and the prophets, for that matter, with the way the sacred writings been put together, assembled by those that " cherry picked " the books that should go into it, calling it the bible.

With the discovery of the " Dead Sea Scrolls ", and other discoveries, more information is brought to light.

Now that we have the worldwide web, when new information becomes available, it  can be shared in an instant.  Things cannot be hidden as easily.

It probably comes down to something Jesus said, " it is done according to your belief." It is as you believe.

What " truth " was Jesus speaking of when he said, " ....and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. " ?

@Lotus:

I think you mentioned I had a private message that I hadn't read yet. I noticed there are a couple in there. Trying to access them, but, not working. I will figure it out. Thanks for the heads up!

rodan wrote:Lotus quoted : " That's why it sounded like a paradox in the end: you have to lose your life in order to save it. You have to die in order to live. You have to be crucified in order to be liberated."  end quote

Can we even know the true message Jesus brought,and the prophets, for that matter, with the way the sacred writings been put together, assembled by those that " cherry picked " the books that should go into it, calling it the bible.

With the discovery of the " Dead Sea Scrolls ", and other discoveries, more information is brought to light.

Now that we have the worldwide web, when new information becomes available, it  can be shared in an instant.  Things cannot be hidden as easily.

It probably comes down to something Jesus said, " it is done according to your belief."  It is as you believe.

What " truth " was Jesus speaking of when he said, " ....and ye shall know the truth, and  the truth shall set you free. "  ?

Hi Rodan. This will take me quite off topic so I'll be brief. It's going to be a lengthy post, but I'd still be very, very brief indeed. You know it's a can of worms and you know how huge the topic is. If you want to sail any further after this post, I think we'll have to start a new thread, just not to ruin this beautiful one.

First of all I'll give you only two examples:


First Example
Jesus of Nazareth: what do we mean by this? What does a Christian understand from this phrase? "Jesus of Nazareth" simply means "Jesus who came from the town of Nazareth, in Galilee." Right? Historically, however, Nazareth was built after the Christ not before him. Actually it was built to correspond to this Nazareth word in the Bible (and to cover the great forgery that followed later). But Jesus could have never come from Nazareth, simply because there was no such thing as Nazareth in his days.

In the original manuscripts, the phrase "Jesus of Nazareth" appears 17 times, but it comes in the Greek form that rather reads, "Jesus the Nazarene" or "Jesus the Nazorean." The Nazarene, still, doesn't mean a man from Nazareth. The Nazarene is rather a title, and it refers to a specific Jewish "sect" that Jesus son of Mary (and John the Baptist his cousin directly before him, and James the Just his brother directly after, all belonged to). In this Nazarene sect, men didn't marry, for example, didn't cut their hair, didn't possess any money or personal properties, wear only white cloths, etc. (sound familiar?)


The Nazarene life in brief was very ascetic and they were very keen on keeping ritually pure, almost like monks—with a lot of spiritual knowledge and possibly mental secrets. Jesus was simply the leader of the Nazarene in his time.


Second Example
What was the name of the murderer who was released instead of Jesus at his trial? Barabbas, you may recall. This is the wicked man the equally wicked Jews chose to release in preference to our Savior. Barabbas, however, is not a name. Barabbas is a title—and it precisely means: Son of God. ("Bar" means "son of" and "Abba" means "father" literally, but usually refers to The Father; that is, God). What was the real "name" of Barabbas? From an early manuscript of Mathew (and few Christian today know that Mathew is indeed the only Gospel originally written in Hebrew not Greek), his name was "Jesus Barabbas."

Now, the Gospels state that this other "Jesus, Son of God," was not really a murderer, but a Jewish rebel who killed people during an outbreak of a violent uprising. We therefore, in at least one scenario of what might've really had happened, had two messiahs not only one (which perfectly fits with the Jewish traditions): a priestly messiah from the house of Levi—Son of God; and a kingly messiah from the royal house of David—King of the Jews. (Remember, that was the "crime" written down and fastened on the Cross according to the Roman rules). Therefore two men, two messiahs, two saviors, whose followers separately or collectively gave them the same name of Jesus ("Yahushua" = Yahweh Saves), were in this very vague and explosive scene trying to "liberate" their people and nation). But, of the two who was crucified? Actually which was which? Today we can never tell. But early Christian sects, let alone Jewish sects, let alone all Moslems, all believed that Jesus was not crucified. In fact, this is what hundreds of millions of Muslims believe literally, according to the Koran—that the "Nasara" (Nazarene) were "confused," and that Jesus was "replaced" by another. Yet again, which Jesus? There were two not only one.


The Dead Sea Scrolls actually gave more weight to both the "Double Jesus" argument and the early "Nazarene" sect. The Nag Hammad Library, discovered almost at the same time, shed much more light again on this Nazarene sect and generally on the "Gnostic" nature (and origins) of early Christianity. (We already have a thread on the Gospel of Thomas here). These two brief examples above, however, may hopefully give you a hint how much forgery has been committed both in our history and mind—a forgery that sometimes reached to an unbelievable extent. Actually Pope Leo X (the Pope who dubbed King Henry VIII the "Defender of the Faith") is on record as saying:
(Check please "Jesus Christ: Man, God, Myth or Freemason," just for example, in the controversial "Hiram Key" by Dr. Robert Lomas and Christopher Knight).



With this all in mind, when we refer to "Jesus" in a LOA circle or context, I believe we do for two reasons: First, to appeal to the masses that believe in him or even worship him; second, because, after all, there may still exist a seed of truth in this body of lies, and we have to be mindful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Besides, scientifically speaking, we today don't dismiss right away even the most pagan myths or primitive, dark superstitions, on magic for example, just because they don't resonate with our culture or even reason. So from the same position we don't dismiss the Bible, or the Vedas or the Koran, at least not altogether, although we are certain that all these scriptures have been heavily forged, altered and re-engineered as to serve specific interests, mostly political. 




I hope that our search and research, especially when it comes to Jesus or "the prophets," will therefore continue free from all religious prejudice and all cultural programming and conditioning; even free from the literal limitations of the various translations of the Bible and all relevant books. For example, in the Gospel of Thomas, above linked, we read in verse 22:

"When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same … then will you enter the kingdom."

Again in verse 106 Jesus said:

"When you make the two one, you will become the sons of man, and when you say, 'Mountain, move away,' it will move away."


What Jesus is talking about here, in my humble opinion, is what magicians know as the "Reconciliation of the Opposites," and this again is what a spiritualist may call "Ascending Duality." So long as we remain subject to the opposites and captive to the duality of the mind and phenomenal world, we won't be able to reach the "unity" or "oneness" hidden in everything. When we see and reach beyond duality, however, the mountain will move away, not because now it listens and obeys, but because now WE indeed the ones who move. We are in the mountain and we are the mountain. Even more than that: The mountain is but a "mental construct" in the mind—and our consciousness of it, our knowing it, is what gives it its very being. "ONE with the mountain," therefore, we not only can move it; we can make it fly, or explode, or even just disappear altogether. This, still in my opinion, is just a glimpse of the truth Jesus was talking about—the truth that shall set us truly free at last.


I'll be back fully active, I hope, after August 12, but that will be for only one week though, so please my dear sir Rodan and everyone forgive me. I really missed a lot, but this is only because you're all exceptionally brilliant and beautiful here. I sincerely wish I could share in every thread and comment on almost every single post. So no matter how free I am, it seems, I'll always feel guilty and indebted, and you'll always have to forgive me.

My apology in the end if that was inconvenient, to any zealous Christian here. (I just hope you fully understand how serious this topic is. Please listen to/watch this video). Take care everyone and have a great day.

Yes, it probably needs another thread and it is a serious topic.

Lotus quoted: " I'll be back fully active, I hope, after August 12, but that will be for only one week though, so please my dear sir Rodan and everyone forgive me. "

Any information you share with us, in any time frame you can, Lotus, is much appreciated.

That was very kind of you, sir Rodan; thank you so much. I deeply appreciate both your words and your understanding. Please excuse me if this was a bit late. I was willing to send it with a new reply to any of your several, most valuable posts, whether here or on any other thread. But since I'm already present and none is yet ready, let me for now at least express my gratitude for these very considerate words and very beautiful and humble attitude. Thank you, my friend. ♥

(One more thing, if you please, not necessarily for you but for our newer friends and readers in general. I'm NOT an atheist—rather spiritually oriented. So my link to an atheist's video, the late Christopher Hichens', I hope clear, doesn't mean I am one myself. It's just the definition we each have for "God;" that is the root of the problem and the cause of confusion in my humble opinion).

Lotus posted: " So my link to an atheist's video, the late Christopher Hichens', I hope clear, doesn't mean I am one myself."

I never thought you were, however, if so, it wouldn't matter to me. I understand your concern about what newer members or guests may think.

Many times, valuable information can be gathered from sources not associated with our individual beliefs.

Personally ,where I am at on my journey, I associate infinite consciousness, awareness, with the name, " God, Most High, even, Jesus, as he represented that " he and the father are one ".

Giving something a name, personalizes it. A noun, " infinite consciousness " has such more meaning with the name " God ", I AM, Jehovah, etc., when it's personalized. My opinion.

It helps me intensify the feeling.

Everything that exists may very well be " infinite awareness", but, calling it God, or I AM, even Jesus, gives it more feeling.