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Infinite Awareness/Conciousness

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Post by Night Eyes Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:46 pm

ok... i will be honest sometimes i think i 'get this' and then other times i feel really confused about it

i understand that we are all one infinite conciousness, night-eyes.. rodan and lotus arent real ... right?

so why does it allow us to have the thoughts that we are?.. the thoughts in the mind, have to come from conciousness right? because thats all there is?

even if we look at the screen analogy... we are the screen? that's what is real and always there, but the screen is playing or projecting the film.. that comes and goes, so the screen (conciousness) creates the film? therefore the film (illusory self) is still a creation of the screen... it wants it there? it wants to project this image?

argh my brain is fried.. sorry.. i'm trying so hard to get this, but i've always struggled to write down what i'm trying to say, forgive me if i'm not making sense
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Post by Lotus ♥ Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:12 pm

no you're making sense. you just seem not to be fully aware of the difference between consciousness and the mind.. i already wrote briefly about this before so perhaps you just missed it.. (the "ornaments" being all of gold, all essentially one, and the mind being the "sculptor.")

Anyway, first there is the endless ocean of consciousness, ok?

then there is a vibration; a ripple rises on the surface of this ocean, ok?

this ripple is what we call "thought." what is the other name of "thought"? mind.

so mind and thought are one, roughly speaking. and what you think, you manifest (this is where the LOA comes to the scene). ok?

now back to Night: Night is the ocean. A thought appeared on its surface, the mind was born. This thought was: "I'm separate, finite self." The moment this thought appeared, two things instantly happened::

1) you manifested a body in which you seem to be finite, limited self;
2) you manifested the entire world around this body, just to "play" the "other" against you "the self," or the "object" in contrast with you, the subject.

thus started the whole movie, and the surface of the ocean got instantly full of ripples, waves, appearances, manifestations, thoughts... all still thoughts, remember, although all are made of consciousness.

so who's the sculptor? who's the magician? who's the director of the movie? Not the screen, not Infinite Consciousness, but the mind. your thoughts/mind are constantly creating the movie/reality--including "the finite self" and even the "body" you think you are.


thus only one question remains in fact: why the very first ripple at all? Why did the very first vibration/thought begin? this is the hard question i gave you earlier three answers to. however, as i then said, it's a question from inside the movie/illusion. the screen never asks this question, because it has no meaning from the screen's point of view.

hopefully clearer now. ♥
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Post by Night Eyes Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:49 pm

yes that is a lot clearer thank you Lotus, i appreciate you patience with me on this

ok so now thats a bit clearer, i do still have a few questions

where did this very first vibration that cause the ripple come from? is that still conciousness?

and are we all different ripples on the surface of conciousness with the sense of separation.. or the same ripple.. is this where indras net comes in?

i do apologise for asking all this, i'm not trying to be difficult or dispute anything.. i just want to fully understand so i can go past the intellectual understanding

when i watch rupert and i get really absorbed in this, i get these real moments of clarity where 'the penny drops' so to speak but then after a while i become confused about it again...
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Post by Lotus ♥ Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:21 pm

you want to "go past the intellectual understanding" through intellectual questions? lol. Very Happy

get yourself a rose and meditate on it, Night. look at it closely and focus... concentrate... concentrate... concentrate... suddenly something amazing will happen: the rose will look back at you. you'll be amazed, perhaps even scared. the rose is conscious and is literally looking back at you. but it won't take much time before you realize that "that" looking back at you is "you." somehow you are there too; you are IN the rose...  this is the real beginning of the journey, Night. so don't spend much time on the "intellectual" side. so far cool, please don't hesitate to ask again. I'm rather glad that you do; very glad indeed, thanks for this beautiful dialog. Just telling you that a whole new wonderful world is still waiting for you on the other side, beyond this phase of intellectual understanding.


where did this very first vibration that cause the ripple come from? is that still conciousness?
this is more or less the same question I already gave you 3 answers to--the best we could figure out so far. for some unfathomable reason you keep asking the same question. lol. yes it's still consciousness, of course. what else could it be? but we have no language to express this "original state of divinity," Night. this is entirely beyond our mind. this is the Un-manifest God, totally unknown and unknowable. why? because our mind, and language, are duality-based, and this infinite "presence" we roughly call "God" is now altogether beyond duality. therefore beyond even consciousness, or awareness, or any of such concepts. now he's neither consciousness nor not-consciousness. neither being nor not-being. just beyond all duality that's essential for our mind to understand (but we may still "realize" though, not through the mind but through the "heart;" the reason "blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.")

So get there first and all such questions will simply vanish. you'll even get more answers (more "understanding") than you've ever dreamed of--although you may still be unable to articulate any of this in such very poor and clumsy languages.


are we all different ripples on the surface of conciousness with the sense of separation.. or the same ripple.
No, we are different ripples. every single atom is a ripple. Every letter in this post is a ripple. and all ripples are finally "mental constructs" or simply "thoughts." the world therefore is a world of thoughts. but what does this really mean? it means, the world is itself the mind. Very Happy that's why a change in your mind leads to (actually "IS") a change in the world. they are one and the same thing.


is this where indras net comes in
Indra's net is to express yet another paradox beyond our mind; what we now call the holographic nature of reality. in brief: if everything is consciousness, then everything is a "piece" of this consciousness. we're 7 billion people, for example, so consciousness is somehow "divided" into 7 billion pieces. each one of us, in a better expression, is like a "ray" of this sun. right? wrong.   

this is what we know in our material world, but not in the "physics of infinity" so to speak. in the physics of infinity, consciousness can't be divided in the first place, simply because it's infinite--literally beginning-less and endless. every one of us, therefore, doesn't really have a "piece" of consciousness, but the WHOLE INFINITE CONSCIOUSNESS. We are not "rays" out of the one big sun; we are each THE ENTIRE SUN.

the "part," in other words, has the "whole" in it, and that's why it's paradoxical to our mind. how to imagine this? more importantly, what is the relation between these parts/wholes? how do they all stand or hold together? this is where indra's net comes in. Smiley


when i watch rupert and i get really absorbed in this, i get these real moments of clarity where 'the penny drops' so to speak but then after a while i become confused about it again...
take your time my dear lady; this stuff may rather take years to fully absorb. also never feel sorry or apologize for asking or trying to understand. that's how we all learn and progress and ascend higher and higher. besides, particularly this school(s) or this "model" is entirely logical and even scientific. this is actually its real power, pride, and even challenge. it's no religion. it rather speaks first to your reason and mind, and always leads to deeper "understanding." Actually it was Buddha himself who said, "Believe nothing..... Smiley

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I believe there will be no more at least tonight (i guess you're even asleep by now) Very Happy so thanks my dear friend for this amazing and profound dialog. see you in a few days, take care and have a beautiful night. ♥️

* * *
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Post by rodan Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:34 pm

Lotus quoted: " Your last post, I'm afraid, was not very clear, Rodan. I'm not sure what you're trying to communicate, so let me just pick up a few lines to comment on separately:

@Rodan wrote:
Am I aware? Yes, I am aware. I am aware therefore, I am infinite consciousness.
When " thinking " this, you are infinite consciousness.

I agree with the first line, as far as I understand it, but I don't agree with the second. When "thinking" this, you're not infinite consciousness. "Thinking" is the job of the mind, and mind is actually the veil between you and who you really are. Therefore it's quite the opposite. " end of quote

Yes, I should have said, " becoming aware " instead of " thinking ".

Another example of words that can mean the same thing, yet, something different.

BTW, what a great thread! Lots of information from post # 20 on. Wow!

( I posted this comment earlier today, about eleven hours ago, but, it didn't take. Trying it again )

I can relate to what Night Eyes is saying. This is a hard concept to understand, or, I should say, a concept to hold. It seems like it makes so much sense when Rupert explains it, but, then, try to think back to what he said about it, and, WTF? Why don't I still grasp that concept?

Each of us has our journey. I find mine rather interesting the past two years. Have had some remarkable, unexplained events in my life. My thoughts are, when their are ripples, shifts going on, something that doesn't fit in, it's just a sign that their is progress, activity, in the journey.




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Post by Night Eyes Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:05 am

glad you can relate Rodan... i think this is maybe only natural, as Lotus has said this can take years, its not something that just 'clicks' overnight

and thank you Lotus i appreciate the time and effort you're putting in to help us get this understanding

i feel like it makes a lot more sense, and yes i do keep asking the same question now i look back over the posts... lol! oopsy! it has a very elusive answer!

when you say meditate with a rose can you give me a meditation link or something.. i practice mindfulness every day is it the same thing but focusing on the rose?
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Post by Lotus ♥ Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:33 am

Hi Rodan (and Night). Thanks for your addition(s) and for your time following this thread—although we missed you yesterday. As you see Night fired it up and almost squeezed me to get her answers. Very Happy But that was awesome. I rather look for people like her. It only shows how ambitious and aspiring her soul really is. She's almost free already. And she's definitely no longer blind.

But, I'm afraid I don't agree with both of you that this stuff is hard or tough. Read philosophy, this is tough. Read Kant, for example; this is extremely tough. But this stuff is not. It's rather easy. It only goes against all, literally ALL, that we've been programmed to believe—not just culturally or mentally but even existentially. The truth you're most certain about is your "I"; the one thing you do know and are familiar with and sure of more than anything else is your "self." Now I'm telling you this is all illusory; there is no such thing. Is this hard? No. But it's unbelievable, and probably unacceptable too. This is why it "sounds" tough.

In addition, our mind has its habits, and it's anyway resistant particularly to this understanding. For the heart and soul, it feels like liberation, even like salvation; for the mind, however, it feels like suicide. This is really the tough part; your mind will simply do everything you can imagine to get you out of this path.

So what happens, usually, is that we read about it. Like it. Find it interesting. Find it as exciting as a sci-fi movie. But we'll soon forget about it and get back to our business-as-usual.  

However, it won't die out. Our soul will rather hold onto it and keep it as its own secret dream, until our time comes and we get back to it. And we'll get back to it, sooner or later, because this is home.

That's why I said it may take years. It may not. It depends on you and where you are in your journey. Some stick to it right away and transform within only months; others still need 5,000 more reincarnations before they can even realize the truth of it, or that it's our only way out of the Matrix.  

* * *

Meanwhile, let me be a bit more commercial or "sellable" this time. Very Happy This is the "Science of Miracles," guys. We all have heard of our human potential and our latent or dormant powers. This is how we may release them. And it all still fits perfectly in the broader frame of the Law of Attraction. A man who could touch the Infinity within and thus now believes, genuinely and profoundly knows, that "I and the Father are one," can definitely do more, much more, even help himself and the world more, than a slave still lying blind in the tight cells of his body, still captive to his sly mind.

* * *
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Post by Lotus ♥ Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:43 am

Night Eyes wrote:when you say meditate with a rose can you give me a meditation link or something.. i practice mindfulness every day is it the same thing but focusing on the rose?
No, this is not mindfulness. This is the other kind of meditation—concentration. You need to make your mind one-pointed. Stop thinking of anything at all. Just focus on the object of meditation, still in relaxation without strain or stress. Your restless mind will definitely drift away, especially in the beginning, and a thousand thoughts will seem to just pop up out of nowhere. It's OK, and quite natural; banish the thoughts, evacuate your mind again and get it back peacefully to the object of meditation.

I can't stress enough how important this meditation is. So although your mind was never trained and it will first feel like a wild animal that never rests or obeys or keeps quiet, please be patient. It will in the end. It's like a muscle that just needs training. However, once you could keep it under control for longer periods of time and get it one-pointed (one-thought) or no-thought at all as in Zen meditation, a whole new world will begin to unfold before your eyes. The least I can say is that, the "true nature" of the object of meditation will reveal itself to you. That's why, in advanced levels, you'll actually have to choose a "specialization." Smiley For example those who want to control the element of fire will have to focus on fire until they get to the "essence" of fire, or the "consciousness" of fire (or the spirit/god of fire in the magical terms). Following a special training, they themselves, in a sense, will become fire. Fire then will not burn them anymore, and they can instantly ignite a massive inferno by the mere thought of it.

Every supernatural power, from walking on water to mind reading to invisibility, even to omniscience, all can be reached through the same route, more or less, but with different sets of objects to focus on for each power. Needless to say, spiritually-oriented people never reveal this, because this can itself take you out of the path of truth and of liberation. True liberation is still higher than all of this, and there you'll be indeed a thousand times happier. Actually Buddha had a hard time trying to "stop" his disciples from performing miracles or paying much attention to them, the reason he finally had to "ban" the showing of miracles altogether—a rule still in effect up till today in Buddhism.

But this is to only show you what really lies behind the veils of the mind and how promising this focus-meditation is.


Finally it helps much especially in the beginning to sit in a quiet place and relax, and hopefully to get into a trance-like state. So whatever helps you get into such a state is fine. I recommend this music/binaural; one of the best I've personally tried and found amazing for this purpose. Some get there faster, however, if there is no sound at all. So it's really up to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHTb4fUHUT4

Also speaking of supernatural powers, I think you or Rodan may find this article interesting. Yet another good piece from Dr. Laura De Giorgio, approaching the subject with a bit more psychological flavor.

http://www.deeptrancenow.com/supernatural.htm

One more thing: girl, I said I'd be away for a few days, would you wish me success and my return soon safe and sound, or would you totally ignore this and just keep asking more questions? Very Happy

Just kidding of course. I'm moving in a few hours anyway (and I really need your prayers in this trip). Thanks again both of you, take care and see you soon. ♥️

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Post by Night Eyes Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:13 am

aw of course Lotus, i dont expect you to reply straight away when i ask... but of course i send you lots of love and best wishes for your trip, and come back to us in good spirits Infinite Awareness/Conciousness - Page 2 994670552
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Post by rodan Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:40 am

Lotus posted: " But, I'm afraid I don't agree with both of you that this stuff is hard or tough. "

" Hard or tough " may not be the right words, from my viewpoint, it's more like, holding the concept after it's been read.
Not because I would think of it as deep philosophy, but, more along the line of " attention deficient ".  

We do live in a world where there is just  " too much " to absorb. Living life, in  general, can draw one from a focal point on a subject.  The mind is easily strayed and forgets, then, a tad of confusion sets in.

Something I tried last night seemed to help my situation.

As I drove to work, I told myself  I would, occasionally, think of awareness of infinite consciousness.  What seems to work better is calling it " God ", or, I AM.  

Simple, little phrases like,  " I AM One with God.  I AM that, I AM.  God, the I AM, dwells inside me.  etc. etc.

Now, when I do this, yes, something else will grab my attention, and, I'm on to that. Well, that's what does happen at work.  However, now, after the particular task is completed, and, I'm " caught up " and have a few minutes or longer, I think about my inner awareness. I think about God being inside, my thoughts go to God, I AM, and I repeat, either aloud or in my mind, the short phrases........." I AM one with God, I AM aware, I AM infinite consciousness,  I AM happy,  I AM confident,  etc. etc....

It worked pretty well last night, anyway, while at work.

Thanks for the link to that website. I remember you posting links to her website before, for material. This one seems really interesting. I've had my share of the supernatural and the strange, even recently some episodes.

Lotus, sounds like you are off on a little trip or moving and will be away for a few days.  My thoughts of being safe go with you, my friend.  You are protected.
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Post by Night Eyes Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:07 am

yes Rodan i think i understand what you're saying

when you break it down, its really a very simple concept... everything is infinite conciousness/awareness.. there is no seperation, our identities of being individuals with their own stories are illusory... simples... but then i guess this is where our ego's/mind kicks in and goes ... NO i'm real, i'm here and for me thats when i feel confused, because at the same time i know its not, its almost like deep down you've always known that and just forgotten or something.

i try to remember Ruperts advice and ask.. who is confused?.. on who's behalf are you feeling confused for? where is the Night Eyes that is feeling confused?

so yes maybe its a case of still finding it 'unacceptable' even though i have no argument for it being 'unacceptable' other than Night Eyes, who isnt real, wants to be real lol

Lotus has helped me understand this better though, apologies for 'squeezing'!
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Post by rodan Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:50 am

Night Eyes posted: " when you break it down, its really a very simple concept... everything is infinite conciousness/awareness.. there is no seperation, our identities of being individuals with their own stories are illusory... "

The concept is simple, the way Rupert and Lotus present it.  Being in a relaxed state, and dwelling on infinite consciousness ( IC ), it's believable.  

Now, when we get back into the " real " world, we have our lives to live.  We still have our " finite " problems to contend with.  Then, thinking about IC, we seem a little confused.  Why can't I remember what Rupert said about IC right now?  Then, later, when we are relaxed again, and let our daily thoughts about finite pass, awareness of IC comes back again.

Something I think I heard Rupert discussing, during an interview, that,  when thinking of IC, being in a state of awareness,  then coming back to " real " world, the finite I, think of the task or subject, the first one that comes to mind.  ( I can't remember the rest, I have to relisten to the interviews. He gives some helpful advice on what to do, I think scratch )

Anyway, my point is, there is a great benefit in believing and going to internal awareness, IC, probably more so than using standard LOA techniques.  

As we develop a " oneness " relationship with our true self, daily life becomes less stressful, easier to handle.  We are learning to " let go ', detach, from our physical being, and, operating from the IC in our lives.

BTW, that link Lotus posted in reference to supernatural, has some really good information on the difference in the physical, the psychic, and the spiritual worlds, and how things operate. Relates to this.
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Post by Night Eyes Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:07 pm

yes i do find even though i still have a long way to go with this, i seem to be able to deal with the 'downs' a lot better, i watched one of his videos on time and the past.. and its stuck with me that the past doesnt exist, when you look for it you cant find it.. this has really helped!

and yes that link was really good! goldstar
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Post by Lotus ♥ Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:38 am

Night wrote:Lotus has helped me understand this better though, apologies for 'squeezing'!
Noooo.. You serious? Why apologize? I said that was awesome. I said I rather looked for people like you. Such free, high and aspiring souls, those passionate about the truth and keen to understand no matter how tough, do make my heart sing, Night. They also give meaning and value to all that I've learned. What use is our knowledge? What good is a perfect answer if never given simply because the question was never asked? So that was a "mental" squeeze that I immensely enjoyed and I rather hope you'll just keep squeezing. Very Happy I even wish, sincerely, other could do the same; we all could do the same and go squeeze every mind we meet for answers, without hesitation or shyness and especially without meaningless pride—not allowing our ego to get in the way of our knowledge, development and progress.  

Speaking of pride, it should be clear, I'm not answering here as a "guru" or even as a man who knows better. I'm just "trying" to answer, only as a friend, and as a fellow researcher and seeker, looking forward to you and impatiently waiting to see how your experiment will unfold after all such introductory questions/answers —thus actually waiting to "learn" from you.

Besides, you're very special, Night. Aware or not, you're a "saint" in the making, my friend. Smiley

* * *

Finally I apologize I'm still away for a few more days. Just passing by to say Hi.
 
Welcome back Kazoo, that was a wonderful surprise. ♥️ Still waiting for Bunny's Success Story. Dr. Bunny: I trust we'll all have something to learn from your story, my friend; especially from your "faith" and the "simplicity" of your heart. Also still waiting for Adi's promised thread on his methodology. A man keeps his word, my friend, right? (Unless he's perhaps afraid or something? :tng:) Very Happy Also thanks Rodan and Roosevelt for these two great threads. There is a lot to be said really in both, I wish I were here. However, in one word, Roosevelt, love is always unconditional my friend, because love comes directly from the Source. What happens is that our ego soon "conditions" it. Realizing how powerful love is, our ego (greed, guilt, limitedness, etc.) turns it from pure energy into a profitable "investment." (There's actually more to this; please read the answer to Question #69 here, especially the paragraph starting with "For the ego, switching the form of the relationship...") As for Rodan, I definitely agree with you and with Dr. Laura, but let's care not to underestimate the "science of magic," sir. Smiley Till we meet, I invite you to please find, for example, a 1948 book titled "The Secret Science behind Miracles" by Max Freedom Long. I believe you'll find at least the first few pages/chapters very interesting in this context.

Take care everyone and see you soon. I'll have to write a separate word for Blossom though, so please just forgive me for some time. ♥️
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Post by Night Eyes Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:51 am

*squeezes Lotus* there! hehe actually i'm good on the squeezing for now i do feel i understand it better and theres not much more to say until i've gone away and 'felt it'.. give me time though, night eyes is having summer holiday fun with the kids at the moment so she's procrastinating! Laughing

its funny though, once you know this stuff.. it doesnt leave does it.. even if you're not fully immersed in it, its there .. it seems to pop in my head all the time now

i almost spat my tea out when i read saint! i'm far to wicked and lazy for all that Lotus hehe.. although are there saints in awareness or are they just illusory too?

anyways good to see you, enjoy the rest of your time away and catch you when you get back! goldstar
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Post by Night Eyes Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:53 am

The Daily Quote from Rupert Spira, 30th July 2015

I, Awareness, am aware of thoughts, feelings, sensations and perceptions but am not made out of any of these. All these come, go, move and change, whilst I remain as I am, without birth, death, movement or change – eternal and infinite.
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Post by Night Eyes Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:24 am

The Daily Quote from Rupert Spira, 18th October 2015

Suffering is not the opposite of happiness; it is the veiling of happiness. It is a call from happiness itself, reminding us that we have mistaken our Self for an idea, an image or an object.
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Post by Guest Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:18 am

Thanks for the thread, Night. Smiley

rodan wrote:Rupert Spira quote @ 6:30  :  there is a choosing thought, but there is no chooser ".

A concept I have a hard time with, and, it made me go back and relisten to the video clip, " Going to the heart of an emotion ", post # 61 in the " Letting go and detachment" thread.

Is Rupert saying there is no " I " ?  No ego?  

I thought I caught in one of his videos the " finite I "  was the " I " the ego part of us as individuals?

I think I do understand what infinite consciousness is, and it's purpose.  Maybe Rupert is saying awareness, which is infinite consciousness, working through us as individuals?

It has me confused.


I haven't had time to watch that video - I apologise, I'm currently stealing time as it is and I can't play sound just now. But all this sounds exactly like where I come from/or where I'm going...on the free will question: the thoughts choose themselves. We believe we're so powerful but it's just the ego: the notion of "choice" is something I think we need to...rethink. Again, apologies if this isn't what he was saying, but from Rodan's comments, Night's comments, and the comments on the YouTube video it looks like it might be similar to what I've become increasingly to believe... though I'm not totally "there" yet.





Update: okay, I found this on Spira's blog:

Julli: My question is about controlling thoughts. I recognize that thoughts simply appear in our minds, we don’t create them. But I do feel that I have choices about following them or not, with what I do with them once there here.

Rupert: The two statements contradict one another. All choices appear as thoughts. If you recognise, quite rightly, that ‘thoughts simply appear in our minds, we don’t create them’ and if our choices appear as thoughts, then in what sense can it be said that we don’t control our thoughts but that we do control our choices?

For instance, the thought “I’d like to go and buy a huge chocolate bar” appears without there being any individual creator or controller of the thought. And likewise the subsequent choice, which comes in the form of a thought, “That’s a great idea” or “Perhaps I won’t” appears in exactly the same way without there being any individual creator or controller.


That is precisely the idea I'm trying to work into my own understanding of reality, and it echoes very strongly Sam Harris...

“You can do what you decide to do — but you cannot decide what you will decide to do.”
― Sam Harris, Free Will

“We do not know what we intend to do until the intention itself arises. To understand this is to realize that we are not the authors of our thoughts and actions in the way that people generally suppose.”
― Sam Harris, Free Will

“How can we be “free” as conscious agents if everything that we consciously intend is caused by events in our brain that we do not intend and of which we are entirely unaware?”

― Sam Harris, Free Will

“If you pay attention to your inner life, you will see that the emergence of choices, efforts, and intentions is a fundamentally mysterious process.”
― Sam Harris, Free Will




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Post by Night Eyes Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:39 am

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