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Power of Belief - Comments

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Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Admin on Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:30 am

 



...

There have been many cases reported where a doctor prescribed what he or she thought was a miracle drug to a patient in need, only to find out after the patient was healed that the new drug was deemed ineffective for treating the condition for which it was administered. One such case, as published in the Journal of Prospective Techniques* in 1957, makes it very clear how quick and dramatic the "placebo effect" can be.


The patient, Wright, had an advanced cancer of the lymph nodes. Tumors the size of oranges filled his neck, armpits, chest, abdomen, and groin. Two quarts of milky fluid were being drained out of his chest daily. All the standard treatments had been used, yet Wright was not expected to live much longer.

Obviously, Wright didn’t want to die, and when he heard about a new experimental drug called Krebiozen, he begged his doctor to try it. Even though the drug was being limited to patients with at least 3 months to live, Dr. Klopfer eventually relented and gave Wright an injection of the experimental drug. This was on a Friday, and Klopfer honestly did not expect Wright to live out the weekend.

By the following Monday, Wright was out of bed and on his feet. Upon examination, Dr. Klopfer found the tumors to be half their original size. Ten days later, Wright left the hospital apparently free of the cancer.


Several months later, research reports were being published that revealed Krebiozen had absolutely no effect on cancer of the lymph nodes. When Wright read the reports, he immediately had a relapse and was readmitted to the hospital.

At this point, Dr. Klopfer decided to try an experiment. He explained to Wright that the reports were in error and some of the earlier supplies of the experimental drug had lost their potency in transit. He went on to say that he had a newer batch which was highly concentrated and so strong they had to take precautions before administering it. In actual fact, Klopfer was bluffing and intended to inject Wright with sterile water—a placebo.

Despite the bluff, the healing response was real. Once again the tumors in Wright’s body vanished in record time.

Wright remained cancer-free for another two months, until the American Medical Association announced that Krebiozen was completely ineffective in the treatment of cancer. At that point, Wright’s tumors came back with renewed vigor and he died two days later.

...

An excerpt from Choose to Believe, by Alan Tutt.

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* The Wright case was also published in Life magazine at the time.



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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Night Eyes on Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:49 am

just read this whilst looking around on the placebo effect

One theory behind the placebo effect is the subject-expectancy effect. When people already know what the result of taking a pill is supposed to be, they might unconsciously change their reaction to bring about that result, or simply report that result as the outcome even if it wasn't. Others believe that people who experience the placebo effect have become classically conditioned to expect relief when they take medication. Remember Dr. Ivan Pavlov and the dog that salivated when it heard a bell? In the case of people and placebos, the stimulus is the medicine (or what's perceived to be medicine) and the response is relief from their symptoms.
The subject-expectancy effect and classical conditioning are pretty similar. In both, the patient has a built-in expectation of the outcome. The subject-expectancy effect, however, is subjective because it's based only on what the patient reports. But there have been measurable physical responses associated with taking a placebo, which lends strength to the classical conditioning theory.
'Shanna Freeman'

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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by rodan on Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:15 am

Recently, a friend of mine I work with, his wife was sent to a specialist by her family doctor, to see if she would be a candidate for an operation to control her weight. Stomach staple, and the band thing.

The specialist was a Chinese doctor. After he evaluated her, his suggestion was for her to not to do the operation. ( she did it anyway )

During her visit, they talked about the medication she was on. He mentioned to her, that most medications work on the placebo effect. Most medications do absolutely nothing, unless the patient feels it may help.

He was amazed out how Americans were so dependent on prescriptions.

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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by rodan on Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:22 am

From my experiences, I'm at the belief where if you believe something will work for you, it does.

There is a new term used along with the placebo effect. It's called " Nocebo ". Bruce Lipton uses it.

If you feel something will harm you, it can, even though substance is harmless for most people.
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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Night Eyes on Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:30 am

i'm the opposite with medication, apart from one which i have taken since my teens (nothing sinister), there has to be something seriously wrong with me to take anything, even paracetamol! i just dont trust it, so somehow i've built up a phobia over the years, which was made worse when i had a reaction to penicillin in my 20's ( which now i would imagine is a result of my beliefs) i had 3 c-sections and seriously considering i was having a baby i think i behaved more like one because of all the meds i had to have! lol

even when i go to the dentist if he needs to give me general anaesthetic i will refuse and let him carry on without... which always baffles him but he knows me well enough now hehe

i trust in my body, it knows how to stay healthy and how to look after itself and i thank it every day for the abundance of health and for being so strong and doing its job, it hasnt let me down goldstar

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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Guest on Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:54 pm

Rodan, your comments remind me of the hospital in China (I think) where they help patients by thought alone and don't prescribe or administer any medication. It's called Huaxia Zhineng Qigong Clinic & Training Center*.

I found out from a website that they have "a belief that chi or life energy, can heal all ailments, including one's own. Students build belief by listening to testimonials of recovered patients and learning about chi and its healing effects."

Pretty awesome stuff Very Happy

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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by rodan on Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:43 am

posay wrote:Rodan, your comments remind me of the hospital in China (I think) where they help patients by thought alone and don't prescribe or administer any medication.  It's called Huaxia Zhineng Qigong Clinic & Training Center*.  

I found out from a website that they have "a belief that chi or life energy, can heal all ailments, including one's own. Students build belief by listening to testimonials of recovered patients and learning about chi and its healing effects."

Pretty awesome stuff Very Happy

That may be that same hospital in the Gregg Braden video, where they video a woman having her tumor removed by ( two or three doctors ). The tumor vanished in just a few minutes.
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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:58 pm

I'm sure it was rodan, I think that's how I found out about the hospital after looking into that story because *lol* I found it a little hard to believe.  tongue

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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Lotus ♥ on Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:21 pm

.
 
Alright, back to Rodan. Sorry it took me that long. But as you see I didn't even take my vacation. Very Happy

First of all, you reminded me of a specific, brilliant dialog (which I'd even send later in full to keep in our "Reference.") here's how the part on "illness" started:

* * *

.... Just look at all the work you are doing, creating and holding on to vibrations that you do not like! You place some over here in your energy field, some over there, some in front of your solar plexus, some around different areas of the body, blocking off the flow of life force energy to that part, then you say ‘Oh! I am sick! How did that happen! It must have been that cold going around’ and we say, there is no source of cold virus going around. You are simply placing in your energy field, and holding onto vibrations that have frequencies much different than the frequencies you feel when you feel good.

Hmmm, there is no source of cold, eh? I can guarantee you that if someone injected you with the Ebola virus, you’d die pretty quickly. And I’ll bet there are injections you can get that will cause the body to demonstrate the symptoms of cold. If there is no flu virus, for example, then why do so many people get it?

Well, ask yourself, how come you went 7 years without any sickness? There is flu and cold all around you, why did you not catch anything?


OK, but that doesn’t change the fact that there IS a source of flu and cold virus out there; it just means I am not a vibrational match to them anymore. You seem to be saying there is no actual physical cause for any disease, and I think that is just ridiculous.


Does it matter, really, whether there is a source of disease if you have the choice whether to experience it or not? Here is our answer: There is no SOURCE of disease, the disease is a symptom of the blocking off of life force energy. When you get the ‘flu’ you do not receive germs or viruses into the body, you go into agreement with the VERY powerful thought stream in mass consciousness of the flu. There is an incredibly complex and powerful template of thought associated with this illness: when the ‘flu virus’ hits, there is widespread agreement that certain manifestations will result, and those manifestations are well documented and very alive in the stream of thought connected with ‘flu.’


You are saying that ‘flu’ is simply the result of going with a thought stream? Are you joking?


We are not joking! This thought stream (especially the one connected with ‘flu’) is more powerful than you can imagine.

Consciousness, as you point out in your essays, created the universe and can modify what is in it. When the ‘flu’ goes around everyone seems to get it, and then when flu season is over, the incidence of it goes down dramatically.


Yes, but I remember the time I got the flu in the middle of summer. How could my body become infected unless there was a source of it floating around somewhere?

This ‘flu’ you received was a disconnect from source energy. If you recall what was in your experience at that time, you will remember there were many self–critical thoughts, among them, an unworthy feeling connected with money and work. The ‘flu’ was the dominant thought stream in your consciousness regarding illness at the time, and so the ‘flu’ manifested that way in the cells of your body because it was a match to how you were feeling and thinking at the time. You will recall that your symptoms were mild and did not last long, because the activated vibration was not so powerful.


Well I don’t remember that, I’ll take your word on it. But I don’t accept that there is no such thing as a virus. They magnify them in microscopes and when they are injected into lab animals, all sorts of horrible effects occur.

We are not saying that that there is no such thing as the cellular mass which manifests and is called ‘virus.’ But the manifestation of that virus is brought about solely by the consciousness directing the cellular mass of the virus, and the thought stream of all of those exposed to the virus. The harmful effects caused by the virus are a perfect match to the thought stream of the virus and to the thoughts of those who are vibrationally resonating to the virus.
Look at what happens in those cases. First, the predominant vibration within the consciousness of the experimenter is concerned with disease or illness. Then the lab animal volunteers to be a part of the experiment, in a co–creative fashion. All concerned are agreeing that there is going to be sickness present in the lab animal. This knowing is very powerful because it has been offered over and over again so many times that there is complete certainty that something bad will result. Tissue from an ‘infected’ animal or from a culture is injected with results corresponding to the co–creation of all concerned.


So you’re saying that if the harmful virus was injected into the animal with the intention of all concerned that beneficial results would occur, that nothing bad would happen?

You are forgetting that the cells of the virus are also conscious. If the cells of the injected material were to change consciousness form one of ‘I am a killer’ to one of ‘I am a healer’ and if the experimenter and animal were both in agreement with that, then yes, different results would be obtained.


OK, this is getting too weird for me. I am feeling uncomfortable with this. How is the consciousness of the virus going to change? The virus IS what it is, you have said, because of its consciousness, which determines its cellular structure and its function when it enters the body.

Now you are beginning to see. The virus is manifested because of the thought stream of all concerned, do you see? When the thought stream is changed, then the cellular structure changes.

The virus mutates into something unharmful because the thought stream changes from one of sickness and disease to one of well–being. This is simply a manifestation of the effect of consciousness on matter and energy, which you like so much to point out in your essays. There have been many documented cases in your medical profession of tumors and illness simply transforming and full health restored to the patient. That is how it happens. You see, that is how disease manifests in the body and that is how release–from–disease occurs and that is how health occurs: it’s all about the allowance or dis-allowance of life force energy, and vibrational matching.


Holy moly. I sort of see it.....

.............................
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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Lotus ♥ on Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:27 pm

....

There is even more, still on illness, that I'll send later. But you got the point. "Placebo" is the word the medical institution uses to refer to a phenomenon not yet fully understood to science. From my perspective, however, it's only misleading, and ridiculous. I rather believe that the material is entirely a product of the mental. Not only the virus or bacteria, but the human body itself is a mental constructliterally speaking. Actually the entire world, as Neville put it, is but "yourself pushed out." 
 
In several MPD cases (Multiple Personality Disorder, now aka DID), it's been observed and documented that one of the patient's personalities may be suffering high blood pressure, heart troubles, diabetes or even tumors, but once the patient "switches" to the other personality, all symptoms almost instantly disappear. He or she no longer has any of these conditions and is literally a different person, body and soul.
 
What does this mean—seriously?
 
Modern science, or better say "materialistic" modern science, has no explanation. But we do: ALL is mind, plain and simple. Placebo, therefore, is only a "trick" to dismiss the truth. A doctor would for example say (and think) something like, "No, this is not real medicine; this is just placebo." But, heck, the "real" medicine IS placebo. Very Happy All medicine is placebo. All medicine works only because of the "thought streams" embedded in it, as all viruses cause diseases because of the thought streams embedded in them, as we just read in the dialog above.

* * *

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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Night Eyes on Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:29 pm

how can the animal be in agreement to either outcome?

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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Lotus ♥ on Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:40 pm

.

Yes, Posay. You always surprise me by how much you really know, girl. Smiley First here's the video so that everyone gets what you're talking about. The sad news is, the Big Pharma joined forces and closed this hospital in the end. Sad

The man behind it, Dr. Ming Pang who invented or rather developed this "Zhineng Qigong" technique of instant healing, is still alive as far as I know. Here's another video, another stranger-than-fiction video, where he deals with some cases himself.

* * *

Excuse me I wrote too much on here, but I'm not coming back again to this topic soon so take your time. Thanks for all these wonderful posts guys, but first thanks to Sir Rodan who suggested opening it. ♥


* * *

(Night: the animal is NOT in agreement to any outcome. But the animal "in your mind" is in agreement to either—just like the virus "in your mind" is harmful). Wink



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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Night Eyes on Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:45 pm

ahhh thanks Lotus, i asked because its something i would like to apply with one of my pets, they're a bit under the weather and i would like them to be in agreement that the super expensive food i just researched and bought will make it all better,

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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Lotus ♥ on Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:00 pm

Night wrote:they're a bit under the weather

Are they? You sure about this? Smiley
Personally, from here, I think they are not. Very Happy

Please remember this quote from Nisargadatta: The consciousness in you and the consciousness in me, apparently two, really one, seek unity and that is love.”

… or from Lotus: “The consciousness in you and the consciousness in the cat, apparently two, are indeed one and the same, so what 'weather' are you talking about, Night Eyes?” Very Happy

* * *
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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Night Eyes on Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:25 pm

none at all Lotus... its all fine and sunny of course!

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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Lotus ♥ on Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:19 pm

.

No, seriously, check within your own mind and self to find out the cause of any problem. You're far beyond this level, I'm aware, but just a reminder. The first mistake we all make is "naming" an observation, or a phenomenon. By merely naming a phenomenon, we immediately lock it up in Consciousness and give it a life of its own. This is how we're continuously creating our reality.

Right here for example, some friends are not very active. How would you justify this? How would you "name" it, or "define" it, or "judge" it? You may for example say, "It's because they're busy." You may equally say, "It's because this forum is boring," or "It's because they don't like me." Once you choose any of these possibilities, it immediately starts manifesting, instantly turns from a mere possibility into an actual reality. Similarly, "something" is wrong with the cat: This is an "observation." But "they're under the weather" is rather a "judgment" that you made, crystallized in Consciousness, and thus actualized.

So get back to the "observation" level and erase all that followed in your own mind. Can you do this? Instead of "something is wrong with the cat," say/think, "nothing is wrong with the cat." But even if you left it at this level and did nothing, kept it as nameless observation, and you just kept in love and peace without worry or distress, it will vanish after awhile—because it won't get a life of its own from either your "mental judgments" or "emotional energy." 

* * *


Last edited by Lotus ♥ on Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Night Eyes on Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:27 pm

yeah i get what you're saying it's just fully applying it that i'm struggling with, i know i can do it, as you know, recently one of my others just had an op and now has the perfect healthy eyes i believed he had!

so yeah i made an observation and then a judgement i see that... i'm being a worry wart, i've got to the point where she's fine in herself but i've decided the food she's eating is all wrong so i've been putting my belief in this!

she's fine and dandy really!

thanks!

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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Lotus ♥ on Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:07 pm

awww you made the other one "sticky"? just saw it; that was very thoughtful and smart of you. Smiley thanks my friend. ♥ ok for now, but please don't hesitate to remove it later when it gets crowded up there. i think many better materials will follow, from me and others. the two "dialogs with higher self" i'm going to send later--on "illness" (the one i quoted here today for rodan) and on "manifestation"--are probably worthier of this sticky position. thanks again and take care. ♥
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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Night Eyes on Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:14 pm

i did, and i understand what you're saying, but i think that one is really important for people who are new to all of these different subjects and models and it will help to remove any confusion or feelings of being overwhelmed by the different topics I love you

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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by rodan on Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:16 am

Lotus quote: " ALL is mind, plain and simple. Placebo, therefore, is only a "trick" to dismiss the truth. A doctor would for example say (and think) something like, "No, this is not real medicine; this is just placebo." But, heck, the "real" medicine IS placebo. Very Happy All medicine is placebo. All medicine works only because of the "thought streams" embedded in it, as all viruses cause diseases because of the thought streams embedded in them"

And, this would fit in with LOA's " what we think about becomes our reality ".

Something I can't wrap my mind around, though, many things ( from my mind, my opinion, of course )
that we take for granted, are what they are.  They cannot be changed. Like gravity.  

Let's say you go to a remote village somewhere where they are completely isolated from the modern world.   One of the natives grabs container of antifreeze  from the cargo area your plane, and, thinking it's something to quench his thirst, ( earlier, he sees you offer a flavored sports drink,  from a similar looking plastic container to other villagers ) drinks it.

Does it poison him? Does it make him sick?  
Remember, he's thinking, believing it's something like that flavored sports drink you gave some of the other villagers earlier that day. After all, when it comes out of the container it looks pretty and green just like the sports drink. )

I'll post what I think will happen in a later post.
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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:40 pm

I'll look forward to your post rodan. That's something that has also baffled me.

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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Night Eyes on Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:41 pm

hmmm well if its anything like a cat i once had it still poisoned him

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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by The Simplifier on Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:40 pm

I think it depends on which consciousness is more dominant- that of the antifreeze being a poison, or that of the villager feeling his thirst is quenched...

That specific scenario can have so many variables. For example, what is going on in the villager's consciousness apart from that moment of thirst? Is he dominantly allowing well-being or not allowing it?

The way I see it right now is that the villager possibly is not allowing well-being because the universe knows that as soon as you, the visitor, realizes what happened, that antifreeze will likely be seen as poison by you, and that will be its consciousness. You will be very concerned and pretty much expect him to be affects by it in a certain way, which isn't just having his thirst quenched. You might run up to him, panicked and then you've got the villager (and possibly the entire village) on board with you in terms of "this is not good".

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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:45 pm

Night Eyes wrote:hmmm well if its anything like a cat i once had it still poisoned him

Lol, I shouldn't laugh at that but I did.  I was just reading up on the placebo effect on animals and found an interesting paragraph about...hamsters!!! Cool

New studies observing siberian hamsters reveal that most animals have something similar to the placebo effect that kicks into gear depending on surroundings and available body energy. When the hamsters are made to believe it is winter time, their immune system goes into a more dormant state to preserve energy. This mechanism helps to explain why we can’t simply will our way toward recovery, but need to take a pill. In essence, we 'need' some sort of external influence to initiate the sequence of events that lead to the placebo effect.

So this makes me wonder about the poison anti-freeze.  There is no external influence in this scenario other than that he is drinking something which he believes to be a sports drink based on a similar looking drink he saw earlier.  What about the taste of it though?  I can't imagine something like that tasting like a sports drink so would that be a factor to consider?  And if he truly believes it's a sports drink the minute it enters his mouth, does that mean it will taste like one as opposed to something poisonous if it is poisonous?   Who is conscious of it being poisonous anyway and how much can/do other people influence the outcome based on what they believe?  

If 100 people watched on, after being told it was poisonous...would he simply get sick in their reality based on their belief which came from an external source?  What about his internal belief if he was none the wiser to the onlookes and just sincerely thought it was a sports drink?  And what if 100 people watched on, after being told he was just drinking a sports drink?  Would he simply drink it and not have any reaction in their reality?  Then again if there are multiple universes you could just say every possible variation has happened but .  Lol, soooo many questions.  Then of course, as Armine said, you have to consider what else is going on in his consciousness apart from his moment of thirst.  

It reminds me of being on holiday and not feeling the pain of sunburn until I am aware of my skin being very red.  Once I notice that redness, the pain kicks in but prior to that I was none the wiser.  So that external event of consciously noticing the burnt skin brought about my pain. I don't know if any of this made any sense but it's late and now my head hurts drunken

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Re: Power of Belief - Comments

Post by happybunny on Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:55 am

I read something once about the Native Americans not being able to see Columbus's ships because they they'd never encountered such things before. Or something like that lol.

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