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Negative Visualisation

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Negative Visualisation

Post by Night Eyes on Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:53 am

I find this article quite thought provoking, i think we can all get carried away in our desires and our wants sometimes, so this form of visualisation i can see how it can remind us of the things we should already be grateful for, its all well and good practising gratitude but do we always genuinely appreciate what we already have or do we just pay lip service?

http://themindunleashed.org/2015/10/negative-visualization-as-a-positive-psycholgical-tool.html

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Re: Negative Visualisation

Post by lunareclipse on Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:58 pm

I don't necessarily agree with much in this article. I think that yes, we should definitely practice gratitude daily, but I definitely wouldn't even have the guts to practice negative visualization to drive the point home.
Visualize it being your last time when you kiss your kids good night? WTH? What if it WILL be the last time because you have visualized it? Imagine the amount of guilt you'll feel for the rest of your life?!

Even imagining all your food being gone- I'm pretty sure that's just gonna attract lack and poverty.
Reminds me of that Steve Jobs speech where he said that every morning he looks himself in the mirror and says today may be your last day- well, here's what you attract with that mindset- early death. Yes you may live every day till that fully, but... regardless if it affected his life or not, I just would not even dare to go there.

It's much easier to just look at what you have and concentrate on happiness and gratitude, it's easy if you only take a moment to actually concentrate, no need to start instilling fears of losing it Rolling Eyes

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Re: Negative Visualisation

Post by Night Eyes on Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:38 pm

Yeah thats a good Point Lunar

i didnt really read it that way, i think i kinda went along the lines of it reminded me of something similar to 'It's a Wonderful Life' where Clarence shows George what Bedford falls would look like without him, but perhaps flipped, just stopping for a second and thinking how much worse off we could be when we're trying to get these material things we so desperately seek or how different our lives could be without the amazing things we already have, now i'm not saying ther'es anything wrong in wanting more, nor am i agreeing with the article... but sometimes we forget what we really have, and sometimes it takes a negative experience to remind us, that we truly are blessed.

but also i would say that we can visualise all we like, and if we dont believe that situation will happen... it wont... ?

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Re: Negative Visualisation

Post by Freya on Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:54 pm

I've only glanced at the article, but I like it. It reminds me a bit of this article on the power of negative thinking. Then again, I'm coming at it from a non-LOA standpoint. Specifically, I've been brought up with philosophical pessimism -- in the sense of "prepare yourself for the worst and you will never be disappointed."

I love that the article Night linked talks about hedonic adaptation and the problems of desire - essentially, the mindset of a lot of people is more, more, more and leaves them permanently unsatisfied, because whenever we get something we wanted we quickly grow used to it and then want something "better" to replace it. Stoic negative visualisation may be a powerful tool for helping us to stop taking things for granted. In his book A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy, William B. Irvine writes that

[The Stoics] recommended that we spend time imagining that we have lost the things we value—that our wife has left us, our car was stolen, or we lost our job. Doing this, the Stoics thought, will make us value our wife, our car, and our job more than we otherwise would. This technique...is, I think, the single most valuable technique in the Stoics' psychological tool kit.

Irvine also notes that Seneca advised that negative visualisation helps to brace us for negative events. This links in with a lot of my current research on religio-philosophical considerations of mortality - injunctions such as "think of death" or "live every day as if it is your last" are widespread, used by the Catholics and Buddhists for centuries. I wrote a post on the benefits of thinking about death here: http://lecafe.forumotion.com/t278-think-of-death

In Bhutan, people live according to this advice: "Think the unthinkable, the thing that scares you to think about several times a day." As Linda Leaming has pointed out, “We fear sadness. It’s something to get over, medicate. In Bhutan there’s an acceptance. It’s a part of life.” And this opens up something else again - it's important to not run away from negative feelings. We have an instinctive tendency to shrink from pain, but as psychologists and spiritual thinkers point out - in the words of Thich Nhat Hanh - "To oppose, brush aside, or deny pain in our body or mind only makes that feeling more intense."

So in my view, negative visualisation can be useful in more than one way: if done correctly, it will "shock" us into no longer taking things for granted; furthermore, it prepares us for future negative events and thus, makes them at least a little more bearable once we reach them. Also, as the article on negative thinking points out, visualising potential setbacks, for example, allows us to take practical steps to prevent them from happening.

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Re: Negative Visualisation

Post by The Simplifier on Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:48 pm

This comes down to: Do we need to feel the absence of something in order to appreciate the presence of it? I think this question is answered naturally by the universe and is unique in any circumstance. As with any logical things we question, there is no one answer when it comes to the universe, because it runs on different logic. I support lunar's notion that gratitude exists by appreciating the thing/experience in the moment. If we are grumpy so often that we "should" be reminded that what we have is valuable, then maybe it's the vibe that can be worked on, and there are ways to do that. Or, we can let ourselves be grumpy and not feel good. Keeping ourselves on a lower frequency is punishment in itself bc it's plain unpleasant. Sometimes comfortable when it's habitual, but that's optional. And if we let ourselves be grumpy, we tend to not feel like being grumpy anymore. It's that "I shouldn't be feeling bad" that keeps us there. If we let feelings exist and pass through us, then it might not be necessary to do what the stoics did. It probably creates appreciation, but there is always the option of appreciation if we turn to it and allow it.

Oh what do I know. I would recommend appreciating your wife by dating someone else instead of imagining your wife leaving you. Then, you can either realize your wife is "better" and appreciate her, realize she's not "better" and you leave her, or she leaves you for dating someone else. Problem solved. Laughing

But really, if you dont feel appreciative of your wife or husband, you both might be better off with other partners or with some solitude. Or not. You know, whatever works. There are several things I'd consider before recommending negative visualization. One would be to visualize yourself feeling that you already are appreciative of each other. Can I get a "it's really that simple"! Techniques also. It all comes down to the same thing and every moment another one will be the one. It's about resonating with the experience. Match the frequency and then enjoy.

Don't mean to be a party pooper. I sometimes want people to stop searching for the right answer and just let the feeling exist through them. But then I guess we'd have not much to discuss on a forum except for success stories and readers would be all "BUT HOW DID YOU DO IT??"
"Oh, well you do something - anything - to get that feeling..."
(Reader searches hungrily for better answers.)

If someone wants to do negative visualization, that's nothing new. We do it all the time. It's called worrying. This is just doing it deliberately for an opposite outcome. I'd rather tap, since it's like complaining but easily moves you through the negativity to super lightness.

Love you guys. Hope I didn't sound too attitudey. It happens. It's the NYer in me.

I love you


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Re: Negative Visualisation

Post by Night Eyes on Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:50 am

Lol Armine i was aware this was going to be a bit of a controversial post... its good to have some healthy discussion I love you

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Re: Negative Visualisation

Post by Adi on Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:52 am

lunareclipse wrote:I don't necessarily agree with much in this article. I think that yes, we should definitely practice gratitude daily, but I definitely wouldn't even have the guts to practice negative visualization to drive the point home.
Visualize it being your last time when you kiss your kids good night? WTH? What if it WILL be the last time because you have visualized it? Imagine the amount of guilt you'll feel for the rest of your life?!

Even imagining all your food being gone- I'm pretty sure that's just gonna attract lack and poverty.
Reminds me of that Steve Jobs speech where he said that every morning he looks himself in the mirror and says today may be your last day- well, here's what you attract with that mindset- early death. Yes you may live every day till that fully, but... regardless if it affected his life or not, I just would not even dare to go there.

It's much easier to just look at what you have and concentrate on happiness and gratitude, it's easy if you only take a moment to actually concentrate, no need to start instilling fears of losing it Rolling Eyes

Lunar, do you realize this is one of the most powerful releasing technique?

Almost all the self healing technologies have this as a foundation.

The tapping therapies like EFT and TFT have a prerequisite that you "be in the emotional body" that you want to get rid of. Then you tap certain meridians to release the blocked energy those emotions have been holding on to.

Then there are breathing techniques for releasing. You first put yourself in in the full on, hardocore feeling of what you don't want and then let them dissolve by breathing slowly. breath in for count of 7. Hold breath for another 7 counts, exhale for count of 7 and then hold the empty lungs for another count of 7.
This releases negative energy.

Then there is NLP, get into the emotion. See where that feel in your body and then emotionally manipulate that energy and it dissipates. Very Happy

Having said that, your concern is valid. The word "visualization" caused much of a confusion here. Very Happy

What if you visualize the bad shit and it actually happens? Good question.
But we subconsciously visualize a ton of negative shit everyday anyway. Visualization doesn't necessarily mean you "see" it with your closed eyes. Like a dream. The act of feeling emotions in your body is ALSO a form of visualization. Smiley

What brings visualization to fruition is the intense persistence. The weak intensity attempts often get lost in the cosmos. So no need to worry about it.

This technique can be well used for clearing purpose and sometimes to desensitize yourself from the fears.

If, for example, you have fear of public speaking and you "negative visualize" it. You definitely reach certain point where your imagination is so over the top that you end up laughing it off. The divine always shines through. Smiley

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Re: Negative Visualisation

Post by Night Eyes on Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:49 am

Yes its used in other therapies too

ERT (emotional response therapy) is used where you expose yourself to whatevers causing you anxiety or fear, for example if a person with OCD, has a certain ritual, for example they have to check things a certain number of times, the therapy will ask them to reduce the number of times they perform their checks... and when they begin to feel nervous they sit with it, lets keep in mind that true ocd isnt about being particular or neat and clean, its about having horrifying thoughts that something bad will happen if you dont perform these rituals/compulsions (well this is part of it), so that person is going to be sitting with full on anxiety and racing thoughts of what may happen.. but the therapy is designed to start changing the cognitive thought processes which will eventually reduce the anxiety, and that person wont connect these thoughts to that particular ritual and allow those thoughts to 'pass through' so to speak

we all have negative thoughts and visuals, its what importance we place on them.

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Re: Negative Visualisation

Post by Freya on Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:11 am

Ahhh I have so many thoughts on this, it'll take me a while before I sort them all out and make them readable. But loving the discussion. Smiley Smiley Smiley Thanks for the topic Nighty!

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Re: Negative Visualisation

Post by Freya on Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:45 am

I don't know why but I laughed so hard at this.



http://www.nbcnews.com/video/virtual-cremation-go-inside-chinese-death-simulator-659073091831

In Shanghai, they've invented a new attraction: a death simulator. Where you get virtually cremated (and then go through the womb to get "reborn" at the end Laughing ). Kooky as it does sound, participants report coming out with a whole new - well mindset. Very Happy Which of course relates to our wonderful new mindset topic... It is apparently designed to be of psychological value.

Given that I study death, I find all this extremely fascinating. Like the visualisation of one's own funeral, it obviously helps with gratitude.

I laughed a lot, though. Very Happy Specially the end bit!!!

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Re: Negative Visualisation

Post by Night Eyes on Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:19 am

Lol Frey... just when i think nothing could surprise me.. you post that link Facepalm

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Re: Negative Visualisation

Post by Freya on Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:28 am

Why surprising?? Is there something wrong with it? Oh or are you surprised by the fact that people have made a death-experience thing now? Admittedly I watched another version in another language from another newsource, but viewing it on mute, it looks like the same footage (and the same interview with subtitles)... Admittedly it has a strange feeling about it, like carnivalesque somehow, maybe that's why I was laughing and shaking my head when my mum showed it to me.

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Re: Negative Visualisation

Post by Night Eyes on Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:50 am

i think it just amazes me the imaginations people have.. and what people are willing to experiment with lol

turning Death into a virtual reality... i guess we're always seeking to experience the unknown right?

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