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The movie Limitless

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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by lunareclipse on Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:41 pm

One thing I do find is that seeking any spiritual enlightenment or trying out any supernatural brain powers was definitely a lot easier when I had no responsibilities and I was single. I could lock myself away in my aunt's farm and swallow 10 books a week easily. That's probably a period in my life when I was mentally and spiritually most advanced.
When you have kids, altering any state of being seems selfish, they depend on me. Not just that, but it's impossible to concentrate. It's not like I get to meditate and stare at the flickering candle or concentrate on the energy flow and all that- one or the other will be demanding attention, so if there is some shifting as you say Lotus Very Happy it must be in some other, intangible level or it's just going kicking and screaming for me lol.

I do believe that placebo can be very powerful, but only if the person truly does believe that the pill really has powers. A friend of mine used to do night shifts at the hospital and the old people always had all sorts of phobias such as "doctor, my heart is not beating". Of course he checked all their vital stats and made sure it really wasn't a medical emergency at the first place but more often than not it was just in their mind, so he used to give them vitamin pills saying this will solve everything and they always reported feeling MUCH better after the pill.

Once my roommate gave one of my multivitamin pills to a girl staying with us saying it's ecstasy. That girl had apparently taken all sorts of drugs including ecstasy before, so she must've known how it makes you feel. I have never tried ecstasy, or anything like that, so I can't vouch for sure if she reacted like it really was that drug, but she sure started to act pretty intoxicated, even though she was completely normal before taking the pill.

If there is not a certain pill, do you believe that stimulating a certain area of brain that might be responsible for superpowers, say moving objects with your mind, with electric impulses - do you think it would be possible? (Assuming there is a particular part of brain that is usually dormant, like I mentioned in the Phenomenon example)  
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/home-brain-stimulation-gaining-followers

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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by Night Eyes on Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:46 pm

i hear you Lunar, i have good moments where i can focus on these things, but then yes it does seem difficult when you go back to interacting with others, especially when being a mum, its hard in college for me too, dont get me wrong it ties in nicely with a lot of it, but there's so much self reflection involved in what i do, you have to be in the mind and the ego.

but then we're already enlightened aren't we... we've just forgotten x

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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by Lotus ♥ on Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:14 pm

Why on earth do you think that raising your children is "less spiritual" than meditation, for example, or that the Himalayas are closer to the Heart of God than your kitchen? Very Happy

I understand you though, of course. But Sri Ramana Maharshi, probably the most important mystic in the 20th century, was once approached by a housewife who told him almost the same you just said. He replied to her: Why do you think you are a housewife? If you go out as a nun (or monk), a similar thought that you are a nun will haunt you. Whether you continue in the household or renounce it and go to the forest, your mind goes with you. The ego is the source of all thought. It creates the body and the world and makes you think you are a housewife. If you renounce the world it will only substitute the thought nun for housewife, and the environments of the forest for those of the household. But the mental obstacles will still be there. They even increase in the new surroundings. There is no help in a change of environment. The obstacle is the mind. It must be got over whether at home or in the forest. If you can do it in the forest, why not at home? ...

It was a lengthy reply, but perhaps what matters you most is his saying to her:

It is wrong to suppose that if one is fixed in the Self, one's duties in life will not be performed properly. It is like an actor: He dresses, acts and even feels the part he is playing, but he knows that he is really not that character but someone else in real life. In the same way, why should the body-consciousness or the feeling "I am the body" disturb you once you know for certain that you are not the body but the Self? Nothing that the body does should shake you from abidance in the Self. Such abidance will never interfere with the proper and effective discharge of whatever duties the body has, any more than the actor's being aware of his real status in life interferes with his acting a part on the stage. Renunciation is always in the mind, not in going to the forest or solitary places, or giving up one's duties. The main thing is to see that the mind does not turn outward but inward.


So don't believe this lie or ever think of the "spiritual" as a class of people or a category of special practices. "Spiritual" is only the description, a more accurate description, of your being. Actually you can still practice meditation, Vipassana for example, while raising your children and being totally "mindful" to them. But it's not really about meditation or fasting or praying or chanting the holy name of the Lord. It's first and foremost a profound realization within, of who you are, or at least of your inner, constant connection with God. So just find this within and stick to it. This is all you need to be instantly on a so called "spiritual path," and this is what our saint and teacher just clarified above. ♥

* * *
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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by lunareclipse on Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:55 am

Thank you Lotus Smiley I think the reason why it seems less spiritual or maybe that's not the best word, less close to enlightenment or evolving, is because unlike meditation, it's not particularly relaxing, the mind is in a complete chaos and you tend to get more irritated as the mess accumulates over and over again for example.

There certainly are things that I could do, but finding a quiet moment to just sit and look within and try to have a conversation with the inner voice is not possible like it used to be.

Here is a Sami shamanic song for you my Eagle brother Smiley I first heard it live the last time I was home and it was very powerful, I still get goose bumps when I hear it, if you ever have time, try to listen to it with eyes closed and just allow visual images flow, what ever comes,it's almost trance-like I love you

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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by Lotus ♥ on Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:18 am

I fully understand, Lunar, as I said last time, so I won't argue much about this and only make it harder for you. (Besides, it's all off topic, so we're just keeping it lit and active here until Kazoo's back—or someone else* is up with more relevant input). 

So in brief let me just assure you that "enlightenment" can be achieved instantly the moment you drop the illusion that you are not enlightened. Very Happy See the trick here? You are already free, ma'am. You don't need to fight your ego for example to get there, or feel more peaceful, or be more loving, because there is no ego to fight in the first place. This is the very illusion. The ego is just a "thought" in the mind that you only need to drop—while fighting it would rather perpetuate it. Similarly, so called "enlightenment" is not a state to be reached or attained. Rather, it's your natural state. You are already enlightened, here and now. You only "think" you are not. But you are, of course. It's "who you are" we're talking about here—your very being. Who else you are, now and here, if not the Self? That why we call it not the Source or the Supreme or God but the Self.

So raise your children as the Self, and that's it. Go though the most mundane of experiences as the Self. Even "act out" Lunar as the Self. Just don't mistake the "mask" for the "face," in other words.

* * *

That video! Wow! That was more than amazing, Lunar; thank you so much. That wasn't a "song" really; that was rather one of those few musical compositions I rather call "states." It's a whole temple on the stage, and those musicians are not playing but rather praying music. Look precisely at 6:19: is this a guitarist, or rather the High Priest in an ancient temple of Venus or Minerva, in a state of total ecstasy before the sacred alter as he just tore the veils and had a glimpse of the Holy Face of the Goddess?

No wonder it gives you goose bumps. This is no music; this is all-pure and all-spontaneous "creativity" that came directly from heaven. Especially the latter half of this piece is fully spontaneous and thus fully divine; there is no single "human" interference at least in this part, all the way down to the end—which didn't therefore sound really like an end. This piece is actually endless........ But neither is my talk, it seems! Smiley So let me just as abruptly end Very Happy and only say thank you so much for yet another wonderful gift.


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* By the way Rodan, hopefully you'll read this, I too was glad of your sharing here. Truth is, I wrote my first post to this thread to activate it just before "leaving," and it was only Night's short post here. When I later came to send it, I found Lunar's post and Kazoo's replies as well, so I made a few changes on the spot and sent it. That's why for example I started with "Oh my goodness! This didn't yet trigger a "heated" discussion?" Originally this rather read, "Oh my goodness! This didn't start any discussion yet?" Very Happy Anyway, I just mean I'm not really active these days although I'm still writing, so please you and everyone forgive my lack of comments.
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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by rodan on Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:09 am

kazoo wrote:
................I guess the next question would be, which is the path of least resistance?  Changing your beliefs about your abilities to do all of the things the characters do in the movie after taking the pill or changing your belief that such a pill could exist?  Cool

Like I said earlier, the understanding we have of the human brain has reached the point that I can totally see something like this coming about within our lifetimes for sure.  

...........  I think if such a pill did really exist I'd be too worried about side effects.........

Referencing the movie, "Eddie" (Bradley Cooper, character), had a worthwhile goal, a dream, to become an aspiring writer.  He just couldn't get a start at it. He needed a boost.  
When he bumped into his ex brother-in-law, ( "former" drug dealer ), and they sat down in a bar to discuss old times. The guy says he no longer dealt in drugs, and was marketing drugs for a pharmaceutical company.  When he presented Eddie with the new designer drug, Eddie was skeptical, he had doubt.  If you remember, as he left the bar, walking down the street, he thought about his life, and probably figured, what the hell, may as well give it a try, what's there to lose. I even lost my girlfriend. I'm at rock bottom.

Eddie had just a little bit of belief this pill might just work.  He took the step.  His mind was convinced it was worth the risk.

In life, anything worthwhile attaining involves risk.  We as humans are not even meant to be stagnant, content.  We have something inside us to do things, accomplish goals, try to do anything we want, try to attain anything we want. However, that part of the mind that protects us, ( the critical factor ) in doing so, puts " limits " on just what we should attempt to attain.  It wants to " limit " the risks. It's job is to protect us.

The character, "Eddie". ( remember, Eddie was only told by his former brother-in-law what this pill could do, and, others were taking it. Eddie didn't know who was taking it, yet)

Eddie, had reached bottom in his life. Not only hadn't he got a start on his book, his girlfriend, left him.  She even gave up on him.  He truly was at the bottom.  Before he popped that pill, his critical factor sided with him, opened up the door, and said, " what the hell, what do I have to lose? I've lost everything I wanted and loved, anyway. He probably thought, just maybe, this pill might help me, at least a little.

His critical factor sided with him, and opened up. The subconscious mind now went to work.  The subconscious mind, ( not the NZT pill ) is what is " limitless ".  It can do anything.  When the subconscious mind accepts a belief, it will go to work to manifest it to be. His conscious mind believes it's the NZT pill that's working, however, it's his subconscious mind that is actually doing the work. Not the pill.
This is why the placebo effect works. When someone believes the pill they are taking works, the subconscious mind does the work. NOT THE PILL.  

In Eddie's case, he didn't even need a lot of belief the drug would work. Remember, he was at rock bottom in his life. Losing the girlfriend he deeply loved, ( and she really loved him, too. She only broke up with him because she felt he was dragging her down, he's a loser in his present state. She got a promotion at her place of employment, and, evaluated her life. The present "Eddie" didn't fit in.

That experimental NZT pill was Eddie's chance at changing things around for him.  His small belief in it, and, that is all it took,  opened up the critical factor in his mind, allowing the subconscious mind to " work " for on his goals.  It can now work. The power is not in the NZT pill, the power is in the subconscious mind. And, your subconscious mind is truly " limitless", on what it can do.

Now, this being a movie,  he got some pretty dramatic results, but, remember, in real life, when you change a belief about something, and get even a small positive result in your life, it strengthens your belief in attaining more.

Drugs, pills, herbs, affirmations, subliminal programming, mantras,  hypnosis, electronic devices designed to affect frequencies, vibrations, purple plates Rolling Eyes , etc.  

Choose your " pill ". They all can work for you.

I think someone in this thread referenced the scene of the movie, " The Matrix", spoon boy. "The truth is, your mind is not bending the spoon, there is no spoon."  

Your mind believes there is a spoon, and, when you believe you can accept the belief the spoon only exists in your mind, and, you can  bend it, it does.

There is no NZT pill, your mind " creates " the belief there is an NZT pill. When it does that, the mind performs the duties of the NZT pill, what the mind designed the NZT pill to do.

Eddie's thinking, " what if this NZT pill could do what they say it will do? Open up the mind, give me 100 percent of it's use?  He believed, just a little is all it took.

Summary:

 Pick your pleasure. What excites you? What, of the above listed " ways ", (there are many more,too )

Pick the path of least resistance, ( to the critical factor in the mind )

Focus on it. Give it a chance.  Believe it will work for you.  

If and when one of the " ways " fails, try another.  Don't be afraid to try a new one.  Take a risk. Above all, never, ever give up.  Always try something.

Our minds are truly limitless. The key is the find the " pill " ( the way ), that works for you, to open it up.
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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by kazoo on Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:15 am

I was just thinking about my own last post, lol and thought about why I was concerned about side affects and why I just automatically assumed that this "too good to be true" pill would definitely come along with some negative consequences.

I definitely think we've all been conditioned against believing that something that seems "too good to be true" is something to be approached with caution. It's almost a universal truth we've been warned about.

That's something I think is great about this movie. Yes, Eddie attracts a lot of trouble after he starts taking the pills but he learns from the others who had gone before him (who all had negative outcomes...) and ends up coming out ahead. I like that it is shown that you really can have it all and triumph and it wasn't all just a cautionary tale about not trying to reach too far because there will be dire consequences.

We've endured so much brainwashing that needs to be undone!
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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by rodan on Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:28 am

@Lotus:

I meant to get in on the discussion at one of the other threads you started recently, Lotus, my friend.

This thread, about the Limitless movie, grabbed my attention in a big way, too.

Hope you are doing well and catching up.

Time to live the characters of " Limitless " and " Lucy ", eh? Wink

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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by kazoo on Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:49 am

Good post Rodan.  

Yes, that "critical factor" or that part SM is there to protect us, not just keep us hindered or stuck.  I think understanding that is part of the solution too.  You can rationalize things better: "Those limiting beliefs aren't real, they are just part of our primitive mind that no longer serve us."  

How about at the end when Eddie says he isn't taking the pills anymore, he doesn't have to, his brain has been "rewired" from taking the pills.

There's some interesting work done with brain scans that show the physical differences in the brain before and after taking certain medications or supplements.  But I guess as you say, that's all the result of the SM making the changes.  Interesting stuff to ponder.  But for instance if the brain scan shows that there have been changes to a certain portion of the brain, the person taking the pill wouldn't know HOW the pill works.  Say for instance a kid taking ADD/ADHD meds.  They may not know much about the medication other than their parents tell them to take it.  But the brain scans end up being the same as someone who is older and has a better understand and would be more open to the placebo affect?

And if it's only the placebo affect at work how could it be explained for example, I have a friend who has a child with special needs and I see all of the medical issues that go along with that.  Special needs children (and even some adults) and babies who don't have the cognitive ability to understand what they are taking in order to have that power of suggestion still end up benefiting from the medications they take and treatments they undergo.  I guess that stuff falls under the "collective belief" system rather than individual beliefs systems.
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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by Lotus ♥ on Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:53 pm

rodan wrote:
Time to live the characters of " Limitless " and " Lucy ", eh?  Wink

Wow! You got it all, Rodan. And got me. Very Happy Just this year, for the first time ever in my life, I could finally understand why my life was "structured" this way. Why I didn't marry yet, for example, despite the 50,000 women I fell in love with. Why I met those miraculous healers—even while still a child, just to blow my mind early enough—or found that Indian guru who first gave me the Gita. Everything is now clear. All questions were finally answered and everything just fell in place. Yes man, I think I'm going to be Eddie, or perhaps even Lucy! Very Happy
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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by Night Eyes on Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:40 pm

You've fallen in Love with 50,000 women?.... you fickle little pickle Razz I love you

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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by Lotus ♥ on Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:25 pm

Night Eyes wrote:You've fallen in Love with 50,000 women?.... you fickle little pickle Razz   I love you  
noooo.. am still in love with ALL of them.
(and you're one of them by the way).
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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by rodan on Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:36 pm

kazoo wrote:Good post Rodan.  

Yes, that "critical factor" or that part SM is there to protect us, not just keep us hindered or stuck.  I think understanding that is part of the solution too.  You can rationalize things better: "Those limiting beliefs aren't real, they are just part of our primitive mind that no longer serve us."  

How about at the end when Eddie says he isn't taking the pills anymore, he doesn't have to, his brain has been "rewired" from taking the pills.

There's some interesting work done with brain scans that show the physical differences in the brain before and after taking certain medications or supplements.  But I guess as you say, that's all the result of the SM making the changes.  Interesting stuff to ponder.  But for instance if the brain scan shows that there have been changes to a certain portion of the brain, the person taking the pill wouldn't know HOW the pill works.  Say for instance a kid taking ADD/ADHD meds.  They may not know much about the medication other than their parents tell them to take it.  But the brain scans end up being the same as someone who is older and has a better understand and would be more open to the placebo affect?

And if it's only the placebo affect at work how could it be explained for example, I have a friend who has a child with special needs and I see all of the medical issues that go along with that.  Special needs children (and even some adults) and babies who don't have the cognitive ability to understand what they are taking in order to have that power of suggestion still end up benefiting from the medications they take and treatments they undergo.  I guess that stuff falls under the "collective belief" system rather than individual beliefs systems.

An adult, ( a parent, the doctor ), giving the child a drug, a pill, such as Ritalin for ADD/ADHD, would be an observer.  From their point of view, they will be looking for improvements in the child, from taking the pill.

The child, being told by the parent/doctor, " take this pill, Johnny. It will help you focus, make good grades, be a better student. "   If the child is compliant, it will work.  

Now, question is, if the child is not compliant, yet, the parents and doctor are, could the drug work from them observing?  I think so. Even though the child is fighting it.

I mentioned this before, not sure if in this forum or another, but, a friend of mine from work, his wife, was looking into having an operation done on her stomach, to help control her appetite.  She is very overweight, a diabetic, and, no will power to get control over her eating habits and won't exercise.  

Her family doctor wanted her to see a specialist, I forget what he specialized in, for advice.  The specialist was a doctor from China, she saw in St. Louis, where he practiced.  

After he examined her, checked out her history and records, he advised her not to get the operation.  He told to her eat right and exercise.  In time, she would be at her ideal weight and no longer diabetic. She asked if there was any drug, any pill, she could take, that would help.  
He told her his views on prescription medicine, and compared it to how traditions on treating patients in China verses the way they were here in the USA .  Here in the USA, people want a drug, pills, to alleviate their problems.  The pharmaceutical companies develop and give them what they want.  But, this Chinese doctor told her, the drugs don't really work. The belief in that the drugs work, make them work. ( placebo ).  He didn't belief in prescribing drugs for this reason.

My definition of placebo effect differs from what most do, as I used to believe it.  I don't remember how I explained it before, it will come to me. Something like this.

Placebo effect, is not a " fake cure ".  It's real, because everything is " real " in the mind. Or, if you want to think of it this way, everything is an " illusion " in the mind, and, thus, you can change whatever you believe in. Take your pick.
When your subconscious mind accepts something you believe will work, it does.
Why? Because it's all in the mind. Things that look and seem " real " to us, are projected from our minds, to, well, the " screen "  will live in.  

Every cure is placebo. In my world. Or, at least I'm on the journey to believe this. Placebo is real.

Lotus, and others, have discussed this, how our world, our lives, are holographic. Our minds project our reality. Everything is an illusion, inside our mind.  ( Not sure if we have a thread in here on this, if not, maybe we can do that, Lotus and some others would probably be up for it. It would be good review)

Spoon boy, from " The Matrix "........" Do not try to bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon. It's not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. "

BTW, I'm not sure if others did a search on whether or not there are any drugs like the NZT-48.  Here is a website I found.  

https://boldanddetermined.com/the-real-life-nzt-48-from-limitless/

I guess this drug works on improving " focus " in a person.

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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by rodan on Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:43 pm

Lotus ♥ wrote:
rodan wrote:
Time to live the characters of " Limitless " and " Lucy ", eh?  Wink

Wow! You got it all, Rodan. And got me. Very Happy Just this year, for the first time ever in my life, I could finally understand why my life was "structured" this way. Why I didn't marry yet, for example, despite the 50,000 women I fell in love with. Why I met those miraculous healers—even while still a child, just to blow my mind early enough—or found that Indian guru who first gave me the Gita. Everything is now clear. All questions were finally answered and everything just fell in place. Yes man, I think I'm going to be Eddie, or perhaps even Lucy! Very Happy

Wow! 50,000 women! Well, that's at least a start. Wink

Looks like you don't need a pill like NZT.

But, then, when you come the realization reality is all inside the mind, it becomes easy to project and fall in love with 50,000 women. They would be " limitless".
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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by lunareclipse on Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:31 pm

I don't think I've even met 50 000 women (or men) in my life time. Lotus sure gets around a lot Laughing but do you mean 50 000 women  or 50 000 personalities, including men, children and old folks, just not in a sexual way obviously?

Kazoo, I always admire your posts, you are so smart. I always feel like a silly little student squeaking from the corner and you're more like the wise teacher Very Happy

Lotus, I understand that we should all understand we already ARE Lucy and Eddie but again, I am lost at the HOW. It's one thing to realize it and have a blissful enlightened moment, but how do you actually use this in your life? By you I mean me lol. Do you have examples? What can I do to act like Lucy or  be Lucy? How do I turn theory to practice?

@Rodan
I have said it before but my favorite quote from Uri Geller was The exact moment you KNOW you can bend that spoon, it will bend. He has taught many people how to bend spoons and I think I tried when I was reading his books, but it didn't work. I didn't have much persistence though, so maybe you could give it a try? Would be good mindbender, if you know what I mean.

I think some drugs are a placebo, but not all. What about people who died because of accidental overdose? Or for example my friend's girlfriend died because of a date rape drug somebody slipped into her drink at the club. She just passed out, went straight to coma and died. In that case the observer was already long gone and I don't think her mind was clear enough to realize what happened and thus be able to have expectations or fears of dying.

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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by kazoo on Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:16 pm

Thanks for sharing that link, Rodan!  

As soon as I started reading that I remembered reading about some studies they were doing with the military (without remembering what the drug they were given was called...) and it was interesting to see that mentioned in the article.  Seems like it's close but not quite the same as NZT.

Not sure if you're familiar with the work of Dr. Daniel Amen.  I've found his books to be really good sources about rewiring the brain and he makes it all really accessible to regular folks.  He talks about different ways to rewire the brain including medications and supplements and seeing what is already known and available is why I totally believe having NZT is just a matter of time.  So perhaps that's all the foundation needed to unleash this potential for us now.  I'm really starting to connect this all and I'm thinking of the next step...

Lunar, you're so sweet!  I don't know if I see myself that way at all!  I feel like I am still just starting to learn. But I definitely don't see you as a silly student!  Your insights are amazing!  Everyone here is so bright, it kinda restores my faith in humanity, lol.
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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by Night Eyes on Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:42 am

*Giggles at Lotus* love you to mr Peck Wink

Ok so i believe children are more trusting than adults especially with younger ones

A parent always has Magic medicine and magic cream that cures everything from bumps on the head to scratches on the knee, they will trust a parent implicitly that if they take some form of medication its going to make them better, also a parent will naturally instill their belief in the doctor, they will affirm to the child that 'oh we're going to see the doctor and he's going to make  you all better' etc

also Lunar thats an excellent point, if we have taken something with no knowledge of taking it, how would it still have an effect with no observer..... that made me wonder about allergies, say for example nut allergies etc, what causes that?, especially when we're eating or drinking something thats considered edible?

also in my early twenties i suddenly developed a penicillin allergy from nowhere, i had taken it all through my childhood so i trusted in it and had no reason to believe it would cause any harm, to suddenly start coming out in a rash how did that happen?

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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by Lotus ♥ on Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:10 am

Sorry Lunar (also Kazoo and everyone) I'm aware this is off topic, so it would be my last post here for now, if you please don't mind. (But I'll be back later; we're still talking about the "Limitless" after all).
 
Lotus, I understand that we should all understand we already ARE Lucy and Eddie but again, I am lost at the HOW. It's one thing to realize it and have a blissful enlightened moment, but how do you actually use this in your life? By you I mean me lol. Do you have examples? What can I do to act like Lucy or  be Lucy? How do I turn theory to practice?

Your question, in other words, is how to be "you"? Right? See the contradiction? Now who's asking this question? It is *this* who just asked this question that you need to drop. The asker herself. The questioner or inquirer. The illusory persona who wants you to be you—as if "you" are not here already—and thus only perpetuates itself.
 
In other words, you, like all of us, want the limited "persona," Lunar, to be the limitless Self. You want this illusory human to be God. But because this "persona" you think you are and just want to "upgrade" doesn't even exist in the first place, your/our minds have no base to rest on, and as such are always in a state of anxiety, restlessness and discontent. Thus starts our endless "seeking." We're always in a state of "seeking"—more power, more knowledge, more money, more tools, more connections, more books, more LOA techniques, more Facebook pages, more forums, more posts on the forum, etc. We are constantly seeking; constantly hungry for more; constantly trying to fulfill what can never be fulfilled, because we just want to turn the illusory into the real, and even make the persona that doesn't even exist… the all-there-is, limitless Self.
 

But when you realize, internally and profoundly realize, that you are ALREADY the Self--not the persona, not the body, not Lunar--the mind then finds in this real Self a solid base of being on which it can finally rest in peace. It finally stops its seeking; its futile search for the true "you" in the desert of illusion, let alone its self-contradictory and even insane endeavor to even turn this limited illusion (lunar) into limitless reality (Lucy).
 
A bit clearer now I guess. More later anyway.
 
* * *


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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by rodan on Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:06 am

lunareclipse wrote:..............
@Rodan
I have said it before but my favorite quote from Uri Geller was The exact moment you KNOW you can bend that spoon, it will bend. He has taught many people how to bend spoons and I think I tried when I was reading his books, but it didn't work. I didn't have much persistence though, so maybe you could give it a try? Would be good mindbender, if you know what I mean.

I think some drugs are a placebo, but not all. What about people who died because of accidental overdose? Or for example my friend's girlfriend died because of a date rape drug somebody slipped into her drink at the club. She just passed out, went straight to coma and died. In that case the observer was already long gone and I don't think her mind was clear enough to realize what happened and thus be able to have expectations or fears of dying.

I don't know how Geller says he did it. I guess one theory could be he had assistance from extraterrestrial, entity, he got the gift from them while young, or, he naturally has the gift of using more of his mind. It's been a long time since I've read his material, and, just like in here and other forums, when I see someone bring up his name, it makes me curious on what he's doing now and if he still does his mind things. I think there is a wikipedia outline on him. I need to read it through.

I've already seen people put their videos on youtube, those claiming to be able to move small objects with their minds. Problem with that, with today's methods of altering videos, can you trust them to be real? The ones that are real, I think they use " chi energy " to move the object.

And, I don't know if Geller used chi, or, maybe he did, but didn't call it that.

From the movie, " The Matrix ", spoon boy did it from believing the spoon was not real, it was inside his mind, a part of him. Then, he could bend it. Yes, this is just a movie, but, if you believe nothing is real, it's all an illusion projected from the mind, ( holographic universe theory ), the spoon is just another " object " that in reality is an illusion, a thought of a spoon, therefore, could be easily changed by thought. I'm leaning on this is the way it's " really " done, by anyone that does it. Even if an entity is teaching or showing the person.

A while back, when I was reading about the subject ( actually listening toe audios ,radio interviews, and youtubes,) on the holographic universe, I spent a day or two , trying to keep my mind, throughout the day, " what I see, what I experience is just on a screen, projected onto a screen, just like a 3d video game to the operator.
A few times, during those two days, I noticed, when I stood in my office/lab, the room looked 3d, just as if I sat in front of a computer screen, watching a view of 3d. Looked at my feet, and went out. Like a POV. My life was just like I was experiencing POV in front of a computer screen. I would try to keep the thought, and, it would look like this.

In every day life, we take it for granted, so, we don't notice it. But, when I did the experiment above, it really felt like I was projecting, everything I saw, out, viewing it POV.

Lunar, in reference to the placebo subject, ( I think we had a thread about this, where I used the antifreeze example, a pet drinking antifreeze, why does it die since it doesn't know antifreeze is a poison. ), I've been trying to come up with a theory on that. Like in the case of your friend's girlfriend. She didn't know the date rape drug was in her drink, but, died from it. There have been lots of situations where drugs are put into women's drinks, and, they don't know it, yet experience the results.

The person who put the pill in her drink, from his observation, it would have taken affect. Even if no one saw him do it, he knew it. And, this takes us to why does everyone that witnessed this incident, in the bar, experience her dying from it.
When he put it in her drink, his " intent " was to make her drowsy, knock her out. Even if he left before she passed out, his intent was already set in motion.

Now, as in the double slit experiment ( been too long since I've read up on those quantum physics experiments ) when the photon particles are being observed, they turn from wave particles to matter. There must be an explanation to what you are asking, that can be answered from this quantum world.




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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by Phantasm on Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:33 am

O...k...   I started preparing a post but this discussion is going too quickly for me. Exclamation

Oh well nuts to the discussion, I'm putting out what I got already plus some more.  

I haven't seen Limitless or Lucy but have Wikipedia searched both and am basing this post on what I've read there, so if there are any inaccuracies blame Wikipedia

Firstly. I have seen Flowers for Algernon and the concept is similar. It's based on one of my favourite SF short stories from 1958, bit of a classic.

[SPOILERS] potentially.

Algernon is a lab mouse who's had surgery to improve his brain. His friend, Charlie, is a mentally disabled man ("slow") who is the first man to have similar surgery. It raises a whole host of ethical dilemmas and questions --- intellect, or emotion - or finally, both? should we even want to be geniuses? if we can make human beings smarter artificially, should we?


(3:00 onwards)

I love him reading to his girlfriend (errr almost girlfriend). As he gets smarter and smarter he becomes an "autistic savant"-type genius memory man, reads poems just once and remembers them from then on...



The trouble is he (with his new brain power) knows more than his "creators" know: he works out, according to the mouse, that he's going to become dumb again. He's terrified of this...


One of the major themes of the movie, apart from "should we or shouldn't we" as far as brain improvement is concerned, is humanity - how we treat those who are different from ourselves. How naturally we pick on people for being different in any way - disabled mentally or physically, interested in different things to us, taller than us, shorter than us, psychotic, depressed, on the ASD spectrum, and so on.

And of course it calls up the whole question of identity, and the mind-body connection. Who are we? Are we really our brains?


Getting onto Limitless. I think we can ask many of the same questions.
Also, as this Psychology Today article opened up:

If each person could have his or her mental abilities enhanced with medication, what might that mean for society? If all of us could obtain the same superpower, would it be a superpower? To paraphrase Dash from the film The Incredibles, if everyone is special, then in a way, no one is. Of course if such an enhancement pill or procedure were available, the likely reality is that it wouldn't be available to all of us.



(roughly how I want to look when I'm old Razz )

kazoo wrote:I definitely think we've all been conditioned against believing that something that seems "too good to be true" is something to be approached with caution. It's almost a universal truth we've been warned about.

Yes, limiting belief. Very Happy I do think there are real moral and ethical issues here but it is definitely great that the movie is not a cautionary tale.


We can achieve greatness without side effects --- though that, to me, mainly in allegory, I don't believe that any drug could be without side effects, probably not even a placebo. But we can definitely transcend our current brain in order to reach greater heights.



For me, a personal question taking the drug would be this: would you really want to take a DRUG to become more intelligent? I'm not sure that I would. Pride maybe. But would that really be me? If I could release my inner potential of myself, by myself, then this would be authentic. But the drug? It is perhaps less invasive than a brain surgery but is basically the same. It may not be a surgeon's knife but it is a mind-altering substance, literally.


As to Lucy, I dunno, I was going to say something about it but then reread my friend's review of it and he basically said a lot of kinda rude words about it so I've become discouraged to go there.  Razz 2



Thanks for saying you miss me kazoo. I was more touched than I can explain.
Sorry guys that this is all over the place. Too many ideas, too little time.
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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by kazoo on Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:26 am

Now I have a bunch of other movies to watch! Smile Thanks for all of the suggestions guys!

That's a good point Phantasm. If everyone is special then no one is. (I saw The Incredibles years ago, it has to go on my list of stuff to watch/re-watch too...) Perhaps that's the reason so much of this wisdom has remained "hidden" for so long?

But at the same time, not to sound too hokey, everyone IS special in their own way. And even if everyone was "enhanced" we'd all still maintain our individuality and choose different paths. At least I assume so. But it's definitely something interesting to ponder.
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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by Phantasm on Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:42 am

Yeah and there's also the flipside of that question. What if the drug isn't available to everybody. I mean say there really is such a drug invented. It will be only the rich and famous who get to use it right?


actually forget ethics... that...     Shocked imagine some of those Hollywood actors' brains actually worked or those playboys had real intelligence. Shocked

and don't forget ethics... ....if people who are already morally a bit deviant in their lives already before having brains became more intellligent, might it not be a problem?

ALSO. This raises something important. Intelligence minus compassion is nada. Useless. Destructive even. If we don't look out for others our intelligence is a warped intelligence. But sadly it's often the case that intelligent people are less "nice" (ugh what a word) than slightly dumb people. (I'm not saying that any of you guys aren't nice, you're all super nice and smart too which scares me kinda. Very Happy ) Look at the Machiavellians of the world. Look at Machiavelli himself. Alright he wasn't really half bad but ... my point is a lot of intelligent people forget to be kind.

Obviously we are looking for a higher definition of intelligence. But I doubt a drug will ever buy you that.
So what's the deal, why are intelligent people sometimes lagging behind on their EQs? Social skills some of them? I know some brilliant people with AS who are utterly brilliant but sometimes come across the wrong way and have trouble dealing with some things in their ordinary lives. A lot of geniuses are troubled, look at Einstein and the way he treated his wife. Mind you he had a lot of lovers so he had the right idea. loool .... Richard Feynman even, one of my favourite people in history, got extremely angry when his wife interrupted his work, throwing things at her and breaking furniture. Florence of Arabia aka Peter O'Toole was super intelligent but also an alcoholic and also was known for throwing furniture around (when his wife, the gorgeous Sian Phillips bought a dress he didn't like, he threw the whole wardrobe out the window). Some of the greatest people in history were physical, verbal, emotional abusers and even murderers. Very Happy obviously they still connected to the divine essence in some way.

But I guess it connects with the emotion thing, and emotion with morality: where is morality and how do we find it if we have no emotions? On a certain level, sure, it's just rational, and yeah that's why we have ethics, not to mention trolleyology ethics.

On a certain level we have EQs in order to connect to people. How would we connect without emotions, I wonder.
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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by lunareclipse on Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:33 pm

Sorry too little time, trying to catch up with so many things, ahh I need more hands to type Sad

I am still curious about Lotus' perspective on that whole emotions disappearing thing. To be honest I have found the uneducated poor farmers to be some of the kindest empathetic people I have ever met that have nothing, but still would give you even that last little they do have, just to make you feel welcome. Yet some of the more educated intellectuals I have found cold and selfish. Of course there are exceptions.

@Rodan Coming back to the whole placebo/observer discussion, what do you think about the following-
Yesterday my husband went fishing and met an ex-army guy stationed around here that said he had multiple lipomas (hard lumps under skin) operated from his body throughout the years and he believes they came from being deployed in Iraq.  Now, my husband ALSO had multiple lipomas cut out and he was in the army for 4 years, he said the lipomas only appeared after he came back from Iraq and he believes they came as a side effect to one or more of dozens of vaccinations and steroids that were injected in them throughout these years.

When I started to do some research, I found multiple veterans with the same issues, some of them had done research on their own and found hundreds and hundreds of similar cases, all from around the Persian Gulf area. One of them wrote "The sad bit is that VA is banking on the fact that you are isolated and will never find out or make that relation and even when you do go see a doctor, they will tell you it's very common and anyone could get them any time, nothing to do with the army", but it's you who has to live with them.

I believe they inject them with a whole bunch of things to actually make them dumber and make you emotionless. Have you noticed how many people come back more aggressive from the military? My husband is sure it's because of the steroids that were injected, they tell you you need it because of some local diseases, if you go to VA after you come back, they say - Oh, it's PTSD, here take these drugs! And they give you a whole bunch of very heavy drugs designed to make your mind even more blurry, that God forbid you would think and figure out what happened.

It makes sense though, because what they need is an army of emotionless, dumb killing machines that are easily controlled and kill without blinking an eye.
What else would happen if they started to think- realize that innocent people are dying and actually empathize and not shoot anyone, war is bullshit, just some money making machine for fat elite that never move their asses to the front line yet reap the benefits. Ok I am getting carried away with the Zeitgeist theories of the war being the most profitable thing in the world and wars being started and sustained just to milk it in, but where I really wanted to get to, was to ask- obviously the soldiers are not expecting to get the lipomas, the people injecting them do not intend the injections to result in them, then- why do they come?

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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by kazoo on Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:04 am

Phantasm wrote:

and don't forget ethics... ....if people who are already morally a bit deviant in their lives already before having brains became more intellligent, might it not be a problem?

Shocked

That's actually really scary to think about. The implications are terrifying when you think about it. pale There is already so much evil in the world and the very thought of horrible people being even MORE ABLE and better at doing horrible things...I don't even want to consider it.
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Re: The movie Limitless

Post by Night Eyes on Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:17 am

I always think that people are innately good..... they just erm.... learn to behave in awful ways in their pursuit of happiness

and wouldnt the drug maybe open them up to new and better ways, would they need to be evil or bad to get the peace and happiness they're searching for once they had this?

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Re: The movie Limitless

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