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Becoming Permanently Lucid

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Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by lunareclipse on Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:55 am

I want to share one of the most impressive forum posts I have ever read and by impressive I mean I came across it a few years ago and it has ever since popped into my mind multiple times just because it is so out there and different.
I highly recommend that you take the time to read the post along with at least first couple pages of comments and hopefully start a discussion on this subject.

Making this post has been mulling in my head for a few days, but I just couldn't find the original source from the vastness of the internet although I looked for it every day for a long time, but sure enough- after the extensive digging, I got hold of it again.

You know how Bashar highly recommends working on your lucid dreaming skills and says that their entire civilization actually became permanently lucid. Meaning you train your mind to always be aware of the fact that you are dreaming and develop a full control over this dream life. It becomes so real, that at one point your real life appears as a dream an your dream life becomes more real- except in a dream you have no limits, you can be do or have anything you want. So their whole civilization by choice decided to wake up in a lucid dream and stay there, thus ceasing to exist in the previous life.
I have also heard that Carlos Castaneda passed over to full lucidity by choice. And this is exactly what this guy that wrote the post planned to do. He said he was going to leave the forum to pass over to the other ermm... dimension?
If he succeeded, I don't know. clearly there were many skeptics saying that he's a fraud,  a troll or whatnot, but there is a possibility that he did. The way he explains things just seems so advanced and different.

In this thread he gives a tutorial on how to train your brain to override reality and see only what it wants to see. Not to visualize, not to attract a situation that he desires, but to literally fully see things that are not there.
Although this is almost like borderline schizophrenia, it just baffles me that a human brain can be trained to this advanced stage. It only makes me think if life really is a sort of a virtual reality that you can change the coding of and the space around you changes. Reading his post truly bent my perception of 'what is'.

I can see the pixels he talks about and even though I don't have the courage to follow his path- I think it can be pretty dangerous, if you don't have support and especially if you have a family and kids to take care of, I can see how he could be right. I have seen a few people comment that after following his tutorial their dreams become extremely clear and vivid and their visualization skills improve vastly.

Also, on this site a fair bit of guys that are advanced do shared lucid dreaming. That is say, imagine if me and Rodan became really good at lucid dreaming and would agree to meet in a dream and have a conversation- we could then have a dream that feels like a real conversation and when we wake up, we both have the exact same identical memories of the conversation we had. Most of these guys use it for gaming style 'virtual dream fights' and they have full awareness and memories later. They agree to share a dream. How crazy is that? This would fit well in the others-thread- the idea that we can be connected in this level and have a well, telepathic dream connection.

Sorry for the long rambling intro lol- here's the thread I was talking about Laughing
http://www.dreamviews.com/dream-control/80879-advanced-vision-control-tutorial.html
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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by Guest on Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:00 am

That's so exciting Lunar! Actually I've been thinking about this sort of thing a lot recently - it's such a coincidence that you've posted something along these lines!

Looks like you've actually posted the solution to my problems. Very Happy

It's fascinating... and I love you actually I've noticed a lot of "thoughts crossed" on this forum... I can't tell you how many times I've thought I'd like to see a particular post/topic and suddenly it's created or active again... and how I've wanted to see members and almost at that instant they came....


Mind you. MA and Adi are still proving resistant to the charm of Night Eyes' and Selina's combined Remoted Influence. Very Happy

/end rant I love you Thanks again Lunar. Smiley

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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by Guest on Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:13 am

(sorry have to still post more...less rambly and more concrete this time though!)

Also, on this site a fair bit of guys that are advanced do shared lucid dreaming. That is say, imagine if me and Rodan became really good at lucid dreaming and would agree to meet in a dream and have a conversation- we could then have a dream that feels like a real conversation and when we wake up, we both have the exact same identical memories of the conversation we had. Most of these guys use it for gaming style 'virtual dream fights' and they have full awareness and memories later. They agree to share a dream. How crazy is that? This would fit well in the others-thread- the idea that we can be connected in this level and have a well, telepathic dream connection.

I've actually been meaning to start a Lucid Dreaming thread for a while. And yes, that is crazy... I think it'll take me a long time before I get to that level though! Shocked

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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by lunareclipse on Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:29 am

SelinaM wrote: I've noticed a lot of "thoughts crossed" on this forum...   I can't tell you how many times I've thought I'd like to see a particular post/topic and suddenly it's created or active again...   and how I've wanted to see members and almost at that instant they came....
My pleasure I love you  and I agree, not only do we telepathically sense the posts we want to post- there are a lot of intertwining subjects here. It's almost like we have all reached a certain point or "course" in our lives, where we all need to understand this information and create this discussion where each topic is like a different puzzle piece and the more it evolves, the more clear and complete it becomes.

SelinaM wrote: I've actually been meaning to start a Lucid Dreaming thread for a while. And yes, that is crazy... I think it'll take me a long time before I get to that level though!
I think it will be a while for me too, but I've noticed that if you actually consciously start to train your mind for it you move on in leaps and bounds.
I've been practicing with lucid dreaming for over 10 years, but most of these years were wasted on not developing it as a skill.
The first stage was a couple years of discovering how senses work in a lucid dream and how to keep lucidity. Mostly just wondering around the dream checking out how everything looks and feels.

Stage 2 was just doing all the cool stuff that you can't do in real life, flying, jumping off high buildings etc.

Then stage 3 was experimenting with what I can do. If I walk into a mirror, what's that like? If I put my hand or walk through a wall, what's that like?  

Then I eventually got to stage 4 not that long ago and that is to change the dream by willing it to change. Initially it was a struggle. I failed a good few times. I tried repeatedly to turn a night time scenario into a daytime one. I was trying to force it or command it and it wouldn't change. Until I realized that if I literally just imagined the scene I wanted to see, the scenario immediately transformed into what I was seeing in my (dream) head.
For example, a couple nights ago I had a dream that I was in London, in front of Lancaster Gate station in the crossing and there was a big double decker in front of me. For whatsoever reason I decided that I'm gonna throw a spoon at it and this will turn the bus into a cloud of big bubbles. It didn't work, the spoon kept bouncing off the windows. Then I imagined it and immediately the spoon popped the bus into a big cluster of pink bubbles.

Although the thread that I shared at the end of the post is not really that much about controlling your dreams as it is LITERALLY controlling your actual visual mind, to transform whatever you really see into a different reality, so please ignore my rambling and please please please read his tutorial not my blabbering Razz PLOA
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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by rodan on Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:22 pm

lunareclipse posted: " That is say, imagine if me and Rodan became really good at lucid dreaming and would agree to meet in a dream and have a conversation- we could then have a dream that feels like a real conversation and when we wake up, we both have the exact same identical memories of the conversation we had. "

I'm up for that! Smiley I have to get into lucid dreaming again. Been a while. Would definitely be an interesting experiment, lunar. Wink
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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by Lotus ♥ on Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:36 pm

Thanks Lunar for this very interesting topic. I liked what I read and it even reminded me of similar adventures I had with my senses, but later got too busy to develop further. I almost did what he said to do, in the waking state, driven only by my curiosity and desire to explore.

So principally I agree with all that I read. It fits with my views in general and even with my firsthand experience in the field of hypnosis. We can do exactly the same in hypnosis, through what we call PHS (short for Post-Hypnotic Suggestion). This may include "Positive Hallucination" (adding to reality) or "Negative Hallucination" (removing entire parts or persons from reality). In the latter case, for example, the client "ceases" to "see" altogether what he was told not see during the hypnosis session (although now he's fully awake). In the "Positive Hallucination" PHS, he on the contrary can see, hear, taste, smell and touch what doesn't exist at all in our common reality. (Again note, this is a fully awake and mentally sound person; it is just the "suggestion" planted in his subconscious during the session, hours or even days earlier. In fact, these experiments were one reason I came to the conclusion that reality is literally a projection). 


So principally, I believe we can reach to the same level of suggestion, or better say here "programming," through a different route not necessarily hypnosis; and this could simply be one of them. However, you should be very cautious in this field, ma'am; if you lost sight of the line between common reality and individual imagination, which is very likely, you'd have a very serious problem.

As for the "Astral" application of this technique, this is yet another can of worms, Lunar. lol. I really don't have much to say, at least not here and now, but this is probably your main interest so I'd like to invite you to read, again, Father Leadbeater (the same man I mentioned here recently, who wrote on the Thought Forms). He's a peerless authority in this field and on what the "Astral World" really means in general. His classic "Astral Plane" was first published in 1895, and I believe you can find it on the web.

Thanks again Lunar for a very rich topic and have a great night. ♥
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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by lunareclipse on Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:32 pm

rodan wrote:
I'm up for that! Smiley  I have to get into lucid dreaming again. Been a while. Would definitely be an interesting experiment, lunar. Wink
Yes let's do it tongue I've had a couple of lucid dreams where I'm having a conversation with a family member and it's so extremely realistic, but when I have asked them later, they don't remember having any dreams that night, weird.

Lotus wrote:So principally, I believe we can reach to the same level of suggestion, or better say here "programming," through a different route not necessarily hypnosis; and this could simply be one of them. However, you should be very cautious in this field, ma'am; if you lost sight of the line between common reality and individual imagination, which is very likely, you'd have a very serious problem.
First of all thank you for your answer I love you

Always interesting to hear your insights Smiley
No, I would definitely not have the courage to experiment with these things, especially if you have small children that depend on you. Things he writes sound simultaneously crazy, scary and impressive.
Right now my eyes see everything in this room including this screen. Lets say I don't like my monitors color. It's just a normal black flatscreen monitor. Now after using my technique my monitor actually looks pink. I could leave my room come back and it would still be pink. If someone else comes in and I ask what color it is they will say black but i'm looking at a pink monitor right now.

To do that I manipulated my sight to see what I want to see. Someone just tapped me on the shoulder then hissed at me.. and now nobody is behind me. Nobody ever was behind me. I actually create all of these sensations and they look and feel REAL. I can summon a guy in my room and tell him to punch me in the face.. and it would really hurt if he did. This is not the dreaming world. This is what I have turned my own reality into. A mix of the two. After many years of playing around with this kind of stuff.

I wonder though if inducing these hallucinations or what he says your own subconscious starting to manifest things that don't exist just actually trains the eye to see different wavelengths that are invisible to others? That these things DO exist, just on other levels of reality, for lack of better words (or make that lack of better words in MY vocabulary lol). Maybe some people that hallucinate that we label as crazy are actually way more advanced than we are, but we just can't see what they see?

Have you ever heard of the people that can see through closed eyelids?
There was one guy (that is dead by now) that could do it and I read his autobiography where he described his experiences and how he discovered these powers as a child.
One thing I remember was that when he was a young man he was traveling on a train without a ticket. When the inspector came by and asked him for a ticket, he handed the guy an old candy wrapper, while in his mind he imagined it was the ticket.The inspector punched the holes through the wrapper and moved on.
Assuming the inspector didn't just feel sorry for him and wasn't dazed on autopilot just punching through whatever in that case his action of "overriding the reality" was also perceived by others.

So if the guy from that thread says he overrides everything he dislikes with images of his own, then say if he gets a bill and would write out an imaginary check or see a fully paid bill instead, would he then be the only one that sees it or would others become errmm hypnotized to his reality? Or since his belief of the time would be that the bill is paid, would the LOA then just fully arrange the bill to become paid- for example the clerks at the place that sent the bill somehow just accidentally delete it, lose it or mark it as paid instead? Or will he just be the crazy guy living in his own reality and the unpaid bills accumulate lol (considering he wrote that others still see the black monitor).
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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by Lotus ♥ on Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:16 pm

Hi. Will give this Leeanne's time for tonight. Just a quick comment on the "ticket" story though.

We usually think we are "conscious" so long as we are "awake," or that as long as we are awake, our conscious mind is in control. But this is not true. We lose consciousness several times during the day, every day, but only for brief moments so fleeting that we don't realize we were literally unconscious just a moment earlier. During distraction, surprise, shock, all such unusual states, our conscious mind just ceases to function. (That's by the way why self-talk is a dangerous habit, if negative, and an amazing tool if properly used. What you think during those "unconscious moments" is like a seed that falls directly into your subconscious, and you thus literally hex (or bless) yourself on a daily or even hourly basis). Now if the inspector on a train happened to be in such a moment of unconsciousness and you gave him any paper as a ticket, he'd take it unquestionably as a ticket.

In "Covert Hypnosis," we simply create these "unconscious moments" intentionally; and for a split-second, your client (or victim) becomes totally under your control. During this fleeting moment you can quickly plant your order into her mind, and when she's conscious again she won't readily realize what just happened. (Skillful hypnotists can use the same split-second to even induce a deeper and general state of unconsciousness, which will then appear to the observer as "Instant Hypnosis." Like, someone's talking to you and all of a sudden just falls asleep.)

_______________________________________


So this is one explanation, and of course there are several others. But that "ticket" story reminded me of this and of Derren Brown as well. I first thought he was a fake, until I found out he was trained in hypnosis by the legend Dr. Milton Erickson himself. Not sure whether you've watched him before or not, but here follow three of his tricks and I hope you'll find out how he created those "unconscious moments," during which he could. . .

. . . pay in stores with plain white paper,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W52is14ShcY
(He failed with the second guy here, but that was his only loss in the entire episode, as far as I remember, which I unfortunately can't find at the moment).

. . . make strangers hand over their wallets, 
(1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E
(2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q2KGGMc1EM
(In this episode the second guy went very popular; as you can see he did it TWICE with him). Very Happy

. . . and win money on losing tickets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II_-QcW4Q4I


I believe in light of all above you can now easily understand how he could do it in every case. Even the "orders" he planted directly into these guys' subconscious are now clear. (Can you tell the exact words he used as an "order" to the subconscious in, say, the first video?) Very Happy

_______________________________________

More later. ♥

(This last post from you was unusually rich of ideas, Lunar. For example, yes we are hypnotized into this reality, of course (not even my theory; there is a whole good book on this fact/idea alone). Also yes, we can see without our eyes (or hear without our ears, etc.) There are even special schools that teach born-blind children how to "see" through their "fingers," or any part of the skin in general—in China, Russia and possibly Mexico too. We can even do this now through technology. For example watch the device in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHNxEaVE57Y (starting minute 31). . . 

So clearly you're the interesting one here, Lunar). Very Happy

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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by lunareclipse on Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:48 am

I'm working right now so I don't have time to say everything I want to say, but just a quick couple words and thank you for your kind words and I will definitely watch all the videos later on tonight.

I think in the second chapter of Think and Grow rich(?) he speaks about his son that was born with no  holes in ears, there were no physical cavities in his skull for the ears, so he was born deaf. He refused to believe or accept it and started to teach his son that he can hear like a normal child. Eventually his son did learn to hear even without any physical possibility at all.

And Thank you, I love Derren Brown. I had his dvd collection and his book The tricks of the mind, but when I came here, I could only take 2 suitcases and had to give away all my books and dvds. I love it how he doesn't only act like a normal boring illusionist like the other ones, he actually teaches you how he does it, even if it is just illusion, or a lie in other words. But he does have the most amazing mind control and ability to read people's minds by just looking at the way they act.

Did you see the one where he plays russian roulette live on tv? Because I had the dvd, I could watch it again and again and see how he did that.
So first he goes through this process of choosing one person that he thinks he can read very well from hundreds of other people and he explains why he chose him. Then when he finally decides to play, he has him put a bullet in a single chamber and count the numbers from 1 to 6 slowly and then he starts going through them slowly from the number he feels is the safest.

I can hear the guy's voice tremble ever so slightly when he says 5, so he shoots 3 and 4 to his head and 5 away. But no bullet comes out so he stops and puts the gun down and takes the longest pause ever. You could clearly see that he is extremely nervous, he has to figure out very fast what he needs to do, because he really thought the bullet was in chamber 5. After what seems like forever he grabs the gun and quickly shoots number 6 to his head and number 1 away and it fires at number 1.

After watching it again, I can see that he had 2 techniques, suggestion and trying to listen to any changes in his voice. The second technique failed and he only had hope that the first one worked and the guy did what he intended him to do. The reason I think that's what happened is that the moment just before the guy puts the bullet in the gun, Derren says "Try to think of one number, just one, are you think of one now? Are you thinking of one?"
So he almost killed himself on live tv Surprised
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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by lunareclipse on Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:56 am

Oh yes and I forgot to share one more detail about the guy that could see through the closed eyes and used the candy wrapper ticket.

He wrote about how he was a young boy and was riding a bicycle when he came to a hill. It wasn't very steep but it was clearly uphill inclined and there was an old barn on the top. He said he used to imagine an invisible beam extend from his solar plexus and attach to the side of the barn. He took his feet off the pedals and started mentally pulling the energy cord towards the top of the hill. As he was concentrating on it the bicycle came almost to a full stop and then started slowly climbing uphill, even though his feet were not touching the pedals at all. He kept focusing until he had pulled himself all the way uphill.
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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by Night Eyes on Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:10 am

Lunar i remember watching that Derren Brown programme, that was some seriously scary tv!!!!

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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by lunareclipse on Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:14 am

Haha I know right, I was biting my fingernails, even though I watched it on dvd and knew he wasn't going to die!

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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by Night Eyes on Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:19 am

I'm sure they put it on live in the UK i could be wrong though, i know he's done some live shows, i haven't watched much of him as i was pretty skeptical of things before, but i must have felt morbid enough to watch a man risk his own life on tv or something... i did respect him a lot more after watching it!

i'm sure i watched him getting people to hand over their watches once before aswell......

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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by lunareclipse on Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:38 am

I like this video --->
I think it's one of the coolest videos of all time for me. I know he is banned from all the casinos in UK because he does card calling.

After reading some of his techniques from the book he wrote I managed to remember a full order of a pack of cards from the beginning to the end after going through it once! If I can remember a whole pack after reading his technique only once, then imagine the limit to which his memory is trained.
I use the loci method he describes here every day, even though he didn't invent it, but just a quick note on that Razz PLOA

I don't know if this is true, but he writes in the book that when he first started experimenting with hypnosis during his university years, he hypnotized a guy to believe there is a baby rhino in his dorm and they have to smuggle it out secretly and the guy completely believed it. He was all sweaty and nervous and making all the hand and body movements as he was dragging a rhino calf.

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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by Night Eyes on Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:45 am

thats amazing...... Shocked

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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by rodan on Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:06 am

If one deck can be memorized, in order, how they are played, fairly easily, then, a few more, you would then have the ability to beat many casinos at the game of black jack. Most casinos do have more decks in them, I think " four " is common? Don't hold me to that.
Derren Brown does do some amazing things.
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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by Lotus ♥ on Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:22 pm

Derren Brown is awesome. The Russian Roulette is probably his most popular video, and definitely the most dangerous. Very Happy Personally, however, I've "learned" much more from various other videos of his. The Orchestra, for example, also the Designers, have revealed a lot about our subconscious, our mental interconnectedness, and even our latent powers. You were wondering about the possibility that we might be "hypnotized," for instance. The latter video, with the designers, just proved that. What those folks thought was their very own idea, creativity and art wasn't at all. It's been all subliminally induced and planted into their mind. We are hypnotized on a much deeper level, though, but that video just gave a hint.

(Needless to say we're all subject to the same process, one reason why it's hard for us to change while still in the same environment and surroundings. We not only have to be attentive to this "constant induction" from our environment; we also have to deliberately create new "input" for our mind. The mere sight of poverty symbols in one's neighborhood, for example, induces poverty in their mind. The mere presence of medicine and pills by one's bed induces illness. The mere fact that a specific dress is cheap or worthless immediately lowers your self esteem and confidence once you put it on. And the mere belief that a specific item brings luck similarly induces luck and practically enhances your chances so long as you're using this item).

I therefore chose particularly those three videos in my last post because they also show us something: how thin this "conscious" layer of the mind is, and how unreliable. This possibly answers the "ticket" story in your earlier post (although by now I think that guy has more "psychic powers" in play here).

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I'm forever fascinated by the Orchestra video from Derren. Not only did they know the tune but they also found the specific key (D Major) to play from, and that was simply incredible. Not to mention the artistic nature of this piece, so allow me to attach it in the end, albeit off topic; may all friends enjoy this beautiful moment!

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Finally sorry I've become terrible in my follow-ups and I really should just shut up. I also apologize to you, Night; I answered you first thing yesterday, but I lost the entire post after writing it all and, given my time limitation, that was simply "traumatic." Very Happy So I'm in the post-trauma phase now; I literally couldn't come any close to my inbox since. Very Happy

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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by Night Eyes on Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:50 pm

Lotus wrote:(Needless to say we're all subject to the same process, one reason why it's hard for us to change while still in the same environment and surroundings. We not only have to be attentive to this "constant induction" from our environment; we also have to deliberately create new "input" for our mind. The mere sight of poverty symbols in one's neighborhood, for example, induces poverty in their mind. The mere presence of medicine and pills by one's bed induces illness. The mere fact that a specific dress is cheap or worthless immediately lowers your self esteem and confidence once you put it on. And the mere belief that a specific item brings luck similarly induces luck and practically enhances your chances so long as you're using this item).

I can understand this well, infact i think you've highlighted a few of my own personal ones there, i really have to wear a certain necklace everyday because i believe it keeps me safe!



I will be truthful here, this is a new thing for me to take Derren Brown seriously, when he was big in the UK i was going through a philosphical i dont believe in anything phase, so i considered him a fraud, so actually thanks for this info guys i might look into him again now my mind is more open Smiley

And Lotus no need to apologise, always in your own time and please never shut up I love you
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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by Lotus ♥ on Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:27 pm

Night Eyes wrote:
I will be truthful here, this is a new thing for me to take Derren Brown seriously, when he was big in the UK i was going through a philosphical i dont believe in anything phase, so i considered him a fraud
As I said before I thought so in the beginning. Once I knew he was trained by the legendary Erickson everything changed. Scientifically speaking, not everyone can be hypnotized. About 10-15% of the world population just can't be hypnotized, due to various reasons. Dr. Milton Erickson, however, could hypnotize anyone, any man or woman, no matter what. He did believe and state that he could hypnotize anyone whosoever, and he simply proved it. Even those most resistant and alert he could hypnotize. But even that wasn't enough for this man. Having perfected his skills, he started to hypnotize "animals" as well, and many of his late experiments involved dogs, rabbits, chickens, etc.

So Derren Brown was trained by this man. Need I say any more? Very Happy


Thanks Night; I sincerely appreciate your understanding. ♥

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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by Night Eyes on Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:53 pm

Ok i will definitely give him a second chance then Very Happy

I've always found Hypnotism a bit unnerving, i remember when i was a kid and we'd watch tv shows and there would be a Hypnotist, making people do silly things and embarrass themselves etc, I guess it put me off the whole subject and then during my mid twenties I just had this loss of belief in anything at all (well it didnt just happen, I did a pre enlightenment philosophy course). Everyone became frauds.. or Cold readers etc.

I have a friend who went for Hypnotherapy (if thats what it's called?) and she swears by it now, she said it was lovely and relaxing and she didnt feel like she was Hypnotised she just felt calm, and afterwards she felt amazing and felt better about her situation.

So perhaps i've been looking at it the wrong way Smiley
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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by Lotus ♥ on Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:12 am

Don't get me started, Night. lol. All I can say is, hypnosis opens a window on the deeper levels of the mind, and it's therefore an amazing practice and science with great potential—the reason, at least some believe, it's been "intentionally" caricatured and distorted in the mass media.  


Today I'll get back to another point in Lunar's post:

I wonder though if inducing these hallucinations or what he says your own subconscious starting to manifest things that don't exist just actually trains the eye to see different wavelengths that are invisible to others? That these things DO exist, just on other levels of reality, Maybe some people that hallucinate that we label as crazy are actually way more advanced than we are, but we just can't see what they see?
This is a very important point, Lunar. Thank you. Yes, "these things DO exist." All "hallucinations" do exist, in my opinion. Whatever you think or imagine, no matter how bizarre, does instantly exist—by the mere virtue of your thinking it. The question is, for how long can a "thought" exist? But this depends on you—how often you "think" it. Therefore, if a paranoid constantly believed that, say, a giant wolf-like demon is haunting him, this giant wolf will then exist and even endure—just on a different "level of reality" as you rightly said. Moreover, others who have access to that different level of reality, due to their psychic or clairvoyant powers for example, will see this giant wolf, and may even harm or get harmed by it.

Based on this theory, the first man-made ghost in history (the recorded scientific history, I mean) was successfully made in France, few decades ago. His name was "Philip." And it was wholly created by a couple who just kept thinking him into being. At some point, Philip could finally interact with our physical reality (make noise upon their request, knock doors, etc.), and many apart from the original creators could now testify to its existence.

In magic, creating "servitors" is a well known practice that follows almost exactly the same procedures. You literally create them out of nothing, only by the power of your thought—and they may end up mighty spirits with extraordinary powers, sometimes even independent from you.   


Maybe some people that hallucinate that we label as crazy are actually way more advanced than we are, but we just can't see what they see?
Yes, I personally believe so. Not all of them, of course. But some, regardless of their appearance, are true saints or at least seers. One of my own "gurus" or teachers went "spiritual" because of a man like this. To him, that guy was a complete wretch at first sight: Homeless, dirty, lost, confused, stupid, and obviously insane—perhaps even with some distortion in his brain that caused his limp and affected even the way he talked.

My teacher was just coming out of his house, about 30-40 years ago, when that guy suddenly approached him asking for some food. No big deal; this already happened before several times with others, so my teacher simply invited him to wait in the porch and within minutes brought him a good sandwich from the house. The guy took it, but kept setting in the porch to eat it, slowly and in silence. My teacher didn't say a word. Finally the guy finished and started to leave. Leaving, however, he suddenly looked at my teacher in the eye and said, "You're a good man, so don't worry. She'll be OK. In three days," then left—my teacher in total amazement.  

That was his mother. She was terribly sick, almost dying, and that was the main trouble in my teacher's head and life at the time. "Even if he could read my mind," my teacher recalled, "how could he know she'd be OK in three days, which exactly what happened?" Or, perhaps it was even more than that. "Perhaps he just decided so, that she'd be OK in three days, in appreciation for the food and hospitality?"—in which case, "Who the heck was this guy, really?" Smiley

Such a wondrous world! ♥

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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by Night Eyes on Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:05 am

Is getting you started a good or bad thing Lotus? hehe, no i wont get you started, i am open to re framing my thoughts on the Hypnosis topic, although i would happily debate the awfulness of the media, or conspiracy/what are they keeping from us, purely because it's a provocative subject Very Happy


Just one observation, and i mean no offence to anyone, i do have issues with Clairvoyants, talking to the dead etc, to be honest i believe its erm.... not overly true.... Embarassed  but isn't it funny how those people hear voices, can 'see' things and talk to our loved ones, and its all lovely and kind and we hand over our money..... yet people who hear bad voices or hallucinate bad things are labelled with mental disorders.....
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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by Lotus ♥ on Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:57 pm

lol. I guess it's a good thing. Very Happy It'd just consume a lot of space and time and it's not even the "main course" on this table. I'm all along trying to catch up with Lunar's generosity, so obviously I'm just quickly "tasting" what she put in every plate here, but not really eating. Very Happy

Night Eyes wrote:
Just one observation, and i mean no offence to anyone, i do have issues with Clairvoyants, talking to the dead etc, to be honest i believe its erm.... not overly true.... Embarassed  but isn't it funny how those people hear voices, can 'see' things and talk to our loved ones, and its all lovely and kind and we hand over our money..... yet people who hear bad voices or hallucinate bad things are labelled with mental disorders.....

Hahahaha, brilliant observation, Night. Funny, indeed.

Hypnosis, Mesmerism, Clairvoyance, Necromancy (calling up the spirits of the dead); all such ancient practices have been given a very bad name in recent times for various reasons. One major reason, however, is that many or even most of those who practice such crafts or claim to have such powers are frauds, plain and simple. Even completely ignorant frauds who just feed on their victims' naivety. 

Moreover, while the "phenomena" may be true and real, the "interpretations" offered are usually incorrect and misleading. For example, we have volumes of reports on the "spirits of the dead" that showed up in many séances during, say, the last 100 years. We have testimonies from the most credible figures at the time who happened to be eyewitnesses in those meetings. We have even photos of some of those spirits. So it's almost beyond doubt that something extraordinary happened (and still happens) during those séances—to which modern science has absolutely no answer, itself one reason all such practices had to stop and even be erased from the human memory.

_________________________________________


What shows up in those séances, however, is not really the "spirit" of a dead person, coming down from the higher planes. Rather, it's the "Shade" of the dead, or the Etheric Double, which never actually leaves until the body is wholly dissolved—until the last particle is decayed. This Etheric Double is the template or the "mold" of the physical body, so it's a "copy" of it. At death, all higher energy "constructs" or "levels" of the human being--what we may roughly call "the spirit"--simply leave or disconnect from the body. Only this etheric mold remains, and we then call it the "Shade."

In advanced magic, especially "black magic," there is a lot that a magus can do with these Shades. They can be called up from the dead body and used in the most heinous of purposes. That's why we should cremate the dead, instead of burying them. The ancient used to cremate the dead particularly for this reason—to release the Shade from the body so that it may now ascend to the etheric planes where it will begin to dissolve itself. 

Obviously I'm very brief; there's a whole science or body of knowledge concerning only the Shades—(their summoning or evocation, their powers, their control, their union with the Etheric Double of the living, etc). But this is really, really, a "dark" science, with which those fine ladies and gentlemen in London's or Paris' séances had really nothing to do. So they just thought it was the "spirit" of the dead that appeared to them—they even photographed it.Very Happy

Now add to this layer of ignorance another, thicker layer of fraud; then add a third, even thicker layer of conspiracy against all such sciences or knowledge, and you'll finally understand why you, in 2015, just wrote so. Very Happy

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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by Night Eyes on Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:33 pm

Yes... I think the layer of fraud is the one that has done it for me! thanks for your quick explanation though Lotus, it's preferable to some of the things people will have us believe Smiley

We should make a Conspiracy Theory thread Very Happy

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Re: Becoming Permanently Lucid

Post by lunareclipse on Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:54 am

Thank you for your lovely answers and sorry for the delay. When I fall a few pages behind I tend to procrastinate and answer the short brainless ones first.

I don't believe Derren Brown is a fraud. He always explains so well how people's minds can be influenced and how to do it. For example in The Heist or The Seance, especially the first one where he shows how people do whatever they are asked even if it's wrong or illegal, simply because they perceive the person who is giving the order as authority.
And also because I have found people incredibly gullible. When I was a teenager some guy taught me a simple slight of hand coin disappearance trick and whenever I have done it to anyone, stranger, family or friend- they always fall for it. While I am doing it I am almost 90% sure they won't be fooled cause it's so easy and SO obvious where it goes, but they are always like "HOW DID YOU DO THAT??!!"... lol, it never fails to impress me how easily influenced people can be.

Speaking of hypnotists, when we were kids we used to do this trick. One would stand by the wall and the other would tie her hands with the invisible rope and start pulling it. If you were the one standing, you could literally feel something pulling you very strongly, it was the weirdest feeling.

On a funny side note the first time I was in LA some guy started tagging along as I was walking by myself on the beach. He told me he was a hypnotizer and a few minutes later asked me if I wanted to go back to his place. Obviously I declined his kind offer, so I guess he wasn't a particularly good hypnotizer lol.

The Philip ghost story and the servitors lead me to further believe life is sort of a lucid dream, where anything can be created at any moment, simply by will. I am now finally coming to these experiments in my own lucid dream practice- creating things out of thin air (and how synchronous of the other threads to end in the same subject lol).

That homeless guy story gave me goose bumps, so thank you for sharing Lotus Very Happy
It's so true, appearances can be so deceiving


Not really a spiritual example, but just earlier today I was thinking about this girl I used to work with some 7-8 years ago. She was a typical blonde airhead, I was her boss at the time and became quite mean towards her because she made tons of stupid mistakes and would ask me to do things for her because she said she was worried one of her fake nails would break (yes, literally), so I sent her to do the worst jobs with lots of heavy lifting to show her that everyone in here works and she's no exception. She said she wants to become an airline pilot and everyone laughed at her because she was such a dumbo there was just no way in the world. I had a couple of good friends that are pilots at British Airways and they were borderline geniuses with multiple previous university degrees. I saw the material they had to study just to maintain the job and the yearly tests they had to take. To get in any college was not only extremely expensive but tremendously hard.
So years went by and I was surprised that I did not see her give up. She kept trying to do everything to get closer to flying and now she has gotten to a place where she IS becoming an airline pilot. I see the pictures of her in a cockpit flying a plane and I am so proud of her. She has become from someone we laughed at to one of my dearest role model that had so much passion to follow her dream regardless of how impossible it seemed and how much people told her it can't be done. And yes, her nails still look fabulous Laughing

That is so interesting what you say about the cremation. As I mentioned before, my decision to have my mother cremated was unheard of pretty much, there was only one place in the whole country that did that. I hadn't discussed it with her before, I wasn't scared of any evil spirits taking over, it just felt right. Later I had that dream with her calling me and saying she was very happy with my decision.

This whole shades subject is so interesting, I have a feeling it would lead to a whole new long conversation and Nighty, yes we should totally start a conspiracy theory thread Very Happy

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